<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Aim high: Deepening the human-dog bond through training</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/</link>
	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:26:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liz Palika</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489760</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz Palika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 04:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489760</guid>
		<description>My training technique is not all positive - not 100% positive - even though in theory that sounds wonderful. But that said, for my own dogs, I let them set the tone as to exactly how their training progresses.

My three Aussies are half brothers - all have the same father - so they are closely related. That gives a good demonstration as to how the training can vary.

Bashir has always tried very hard to comply with everything I ask of him. If he can figure it out - if I can communicate with him - he&#039;s on it. His training has been - for all six of his years - probably 97 percent positive - if there is such a thing. And the harshest I&#039;ve had to be to interrupt behavior I don&#039;t want to continue is an &quot;Ah ah!&quot;

Even though we were Archer&#039;s 4th home and he came with some bad manners, he&#039;s just about the same way. I can stop any unwanted behaviors with an &quot;Acck!&quot; And he also tries very hard to figure out what I want.

Now my old man, Riker, is another story. I could take a 2x4 to him (example, folks, and exaggeration to make a point) and he&#039;d bounce back with a smile! When trainers say behaviors that are rewarded will be repeated, Riker took that to heart. The problem is everything is self rewarding to him. So my training for him was as positive as I could make it but with far more interruptions and far more control than for the other two dogs. Even now, at 11 years old, I have to use tighter controls on him.

My point is, every dog is an individual, every dog owner is an individual, and every household routine is unique. Training must be tailored to each situation.

There are certain behaviors I will not tolerate and most of those are potential dangers to the dog or to people. Dogs are not allowed to steal things; dogs are not allowed to steal food; dogs are not allowed to dash out open doors or gates; and so on. I begin teaching these behaviors as soon as the dog joins our household and during the learning stages, the dog is tightly controlled/managed so the behaviors don&#039;t happen. When I feel the dog has the training and maturity and desire to please, I will allow him more freedom. If he makes a mistake, he is stopped and he goes back on leash and back under closer control.

When Kindred Spirits was working with the Camp Pendleton Pit Bulls and Rottweilers this past winter and spring, trying to get those dogs to pass the CGC so they could remain in their homes, we couldn&#039;t use all positive training techniques. Some of those dogs hadn&#039;t left their homes or back yards even for walks in three or four years. As an example, I got bit in the face by one of those dogs (who did NOT pass the CGC, in case you were curious!) Were their owners negligent, yes of course. But we weren&#039;t there to argue about it - not at that point in time. Those dogs were going to be killed (because shelters were refusing to accept any more) unless we could change behavior immediately. We were able to help 50 - 60 dogs remain in their homes - with the training and owner education to hopefully make a difference in the dogs&#039; (and owners) lives.

I&#039;ve been to many seminars for dog trainers - dozens and dozens of them. Some were taught by all positive trainers and some weren&#039;t. (One of my dogs is - or was - in Terry Ryan&#039;s presentation on dog body language and behavior.) 

However, I became utterly disgusted with a number of all positive dog trainers a few years ago at one of those long weekend presentations for dog trainers - not the public - but trainers. My business partner, Petra, and I took a dog each and drove about eight hours. Far too many of the dogs belonging to trainers were causing so much disruption the speakers had a hard time speaking. Far too many dogs relieved themselves in the lobby and hallways. Far too many owners didn&#039;t pick up after their dogs. Dogs lunged at Petra&#039;s and my dogs. We were so disgusted we left a day early. 

Now I am NOT blaming ALL positive trainers; no way and please don&#039;t think I am. I have seen some wonderful dogs and trainers who use these techniques.

However, I wish some of those trainers had higher expectations for their dogs and if the technique they are using isn&#039;t working, then try something else!

My sincerest desire is that ALL trainers would keep in mind there are MANY effective and HUMANE ways to train dogs. I would love to see more tolerance for varied techniques. And understanding that every dog, owner and household is unique.

This may be asking too much but it&#039;s my desire and lifelong goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My training technique is not all positive - not 100% positive - even though in theory that sounds wonderful. But that said, for my own dogs, I let them set the tone as to exactly how their training progresses.</p>
<p>My three Aussies are half brothers - all have the same father - so they are closely related. That gives a good demonstration as to how the training can vary.</p>
<p>Bashir has always tried very hard to comply with everything I ask of him. If he can figure it out - if I can communicate with him - he&#8217;s on it. His training has been - for all six of his years - probably 97 percent positive - if there is such a thing. And the harshest I&#8217;ve had to be to interrupt behavior I don&#8217;t want to continue is an &#8220;Ah ah!&#8221;</p>
<p>Even though we were Archer&#8217;s 4th home and he came with some bad manners, he&#8217;s just about the same way. I can stop any unwanted behaviors with an &#8220;Acck!&#8221; And he also tries very hard to figure out what I want.</p>
<p>Now my old man, Riker, is another story. I could take a 2x4 to him (example, folks, and exaggeration to make a point) and he&#8217;d bounce back with a smile! When trainers say behaviors that are rewarded will be repeated, Riker took that to heart. The problem is everything is self rewarding to him. So my training for him was as positive as I could make it but with far more interruptions and far more control than for the other two dogs. Even now, at 11 years old, I have to use tighter controls on him.</p>
<p>My point is, every dog is an individual, every dog owner is an individual, and every household routine is unique. Training must be tailored to each situation.</p>
<p>There are certain behaviors I will not tolerate and most of those are potential dangers to the dog or to people. Dogs are not allowed to steal things; dogs are not allowed to steal food; dogs are not allowed to dash out open doors or gates; and so on. I begin teaching these behaviors as soon as the dog joins our household and during the learning stages, the dog is tightly controlled/managed so the behaviors don&#8217;t happen. When I feel the dog has the training and maturity and desire to please, I will allow him more freedom. If he makes a mistake, he is stopped and he goes back on leash and back under closer control.</p>
<p>When Kindred Spirits was working with the Camp Pendleton Pit Bulls and Rottweilers this past winter and spring, trying to get those dogs to pass the CGC so they could remain in their homes, we couldn&#8217;t use all positive training techniques. Some of those dogs hadn&#8217;t left their homes or back yards even for walks in three or four years. As an example, I got bit in the face by one of those dogs (who did NOT pass the CGC, in case you were curious!) Were their owners negligent, yes of course. But we weren&#8217;t there to argue about it - not at that point in time. Those dogs were going to be killed (because shelters were refusing to accept any more) unless we could change behavior immediately. We were able to help 50 - 60 dogs remain in their homes - with the training and owner education to hopefully make a difference in the dogs&#8217; (and owners) lives.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been to many seminars for dog trainers - dozens and dozens of them. Some were taught by all positive trainers and some weren&#8217;t. (One of my dogs is - or was - in Terry Ryan&#8217;s presentation on dog body language and behavior.) </p>
<p>However, I became utterly disgusted with a number of all positive dog trainers a few years ago at one of those long weekend presentations for dog trainers - not the public - but trainers. My business partner, Petra, and I took a dog each and drove about eight hours. Far too many of the dogs belonging to trainers were causing so much disruption the speakers had a hard time speaking. Far too many dogs relieved themselves in the lobby and hallways. Far too many owners didn&#8217;t pick up after their dogs. Dogs lunged at Petra&#8217;s and my dogs. We were so disgusted we left a day early. </p>
<p>Now I am NOT blaming ALL positive trainers; no way and please don&#8217;t think I am. I have seen some wonderful dogs and trainers who use these techniques.</p>
<p>However, I wish some of those trainers had higher expectations for their dogs and if the technique they are using isn&#8217;t working, then try something else!</p>
<p>My sincerest desire is that ALL trainers would keep in mind there are MANY effective and HUMANE ways to train dogs. I would love to see more tolerance for varied techniques. And understanding that every dog, owner and household is unique.</p>
<p>This may be asking too much but it&#8217;s my desire and lifelong goal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: H. Houlahan</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489750</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Houlahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489750</guid>
		<description>Susan&#039;s question is a trap.

&quot;What you say is &lt;i&gt;impossible&lt;/i&gt; -- I could never teach my dog the manners you describe &lt;i&gt;without compromising my ethics&lt;/i&gt; -- which, it just so happens, are far more ethical ethics than yours.&quot;

I can provide you with dozens of ways to &lt;i&gt;train&lt;/i&gt; a dog to leave things alone, all humane, and all effective (though not one effective every time for every dog, which is why there is more than one way.)

Additional irrelevant criteria -- Christ-centered methods, vegan methods, Leninist methods, &quot;all-positive&quot; methods -- sorry, not interested in backflipping through your special hoops.  Just a dawg trainer.  Find yourself a vegan socialist Christian positive trainer and go to town.  You can entertain yourself for decades erecting extraneous ideological hoops, and end up with a well-managed dog skeleton still in its crate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan&#8217;s question is a trap.</p>
<p>&#8220;What you say is <i>impossible</i> &#8212; I could never teach my dog the manners you describe <i>without compromising my ethics</i> &#8212; which, it just so happens, are far more ethical ethics than yours.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can provide you with dozens of ways to <i>train</i> a dog to leave things alone, all humane, and all effective (though not one effective every time for every dog, which is why there is more than one way.)</p>
<p>Additional irrelevant criteria &#8212; Christ-centered methods, vegan methods, Leninist methods, &#8220;all-positive&#8221; methods &#8212; sorry, not interested in backflipping through your special hoops.  Just a dawg trainer.  Find yourself a vegan socialist Christian positive trainer and go to town.  You can entertain yourself for decades erecting extraneous ideological hoops, and end up with a well-managed dog skeleton still in its crate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489744</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489744</guid>
		<description>Susan, you know I think the world of you, and we&#039;ve had this conversation off-line before. :) 

But honest to God, I am sick to DEATH of being told a solution has to be &quot;all positive&quot; or it&#039;s not acceptable.

I don&#039;t have an &quot;all positive&quot; relationship with my business partner, my colleagues, my friends, my family, former BFs, my past employers, my editors, my neighbors, my pharmacist, my doctor, my veterinarian, my broadband provider, my .... well, you get the point. 

And I don&#039;t have an all-positive relationship with my dog. Yes, I manage a lot of behavior instead of correcting it, because I am basically a wimp. But dogs are not chickens, and I do not train them like a chickens. I LOVE clicker training, and I am very patient in molding behavior. But there are some behaviors that just not gonna fly. 

My dogs learn that behavior, &quot;good&quot; or &quot;bad,&quot; has consequences. I am not a sadistic bitch for insisting on this. 

I think the &quot;problem&quot; of Cesar Millan is not so much that he is &quot;old-fashioned,&quot; &quot;cruel,&quot; &quot;unscientific&quot; or whatever you want to call it. I think the problem is that he has made the &quot;all-positive&quot; trainers lose their effing minds and stop considering any shred of common sense and history in dog training because they HATE HIM that much. 

By the way, you see the same in the horse world. Ten thousand years of wisdom and real &quot;natural&quot; horsemanship, tossed out the door because someone hasn&#039;t the guts to tell their toddler, dog or 1200-pound horse ... &quot;NO!&quot;

Flame suit on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan, you know I think the world of you, and we&#8217;ve had this conversation off-line before. :) </p>
<p>But honest to God, I am sick to DEATH of being told a solution has to be &#8220;all positive&#8221; or it&#8217;s not acceptable.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have an &#8220;all positive&#8221; relationship with my business partner, my colleagues, my friends, my family, former BFs, my past employers, my editors, my neighbors, my pharmacist, my doctor, my veterinarian, my broadband provider, my &#8230;. well, you get the point. </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t have an all-positive relationship with my dog. Yes, I manage a lot of behavior instead of correcting it, because I am basically a wimp. But dogs are not chickens, and I do not train them like a chickens. I LOVE clicker training, and I am very patient in molding behavior. But there are some behaviors that just not gonna fly. </p>
<p>My dogs learn that behavior, &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;bad,&#8221; has consequences. I am not a sadistic bitch for insisting on this. </p>
<p>I think the &#8220;problem&#8221; of Cesar Millan is not so much that he is &#8220;old-fashioned,&#8221; &#8220;cruel,&#8221; &#8220;unscientific&#8221; or whatever you want to call it. I think the problem is that he has made the &#8220;all-positive&#8221; trainers lose their effing minds and stop considering any shred of common sense and history in dog training because they HATE HIM that much. </p>
<p>By the way, you see the same in the horse world. Ten thousand years of wisdom and real &#8220;natural&#8221; horsemanship, tossed out the door because someone hasn&#8217;t the guts to tell their toddler, dog or 1200-pound horse &#8230; &#8220;NO!&#8221;</p>
<p>Flame suit on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cait</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489732</link>
		<dc:creator>Cait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489732</guid>
		<description>PS: This- especially as 100% positive- won&#039;t work for every dog. But I think that&#039;d be pretty obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS: This- especially as 100% positive- won&#8217;t work for every dog. But I think that&#8217;d be pretty obvious.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cait</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489731</link>
		<dc:creator>Cait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489731</guid>
		<description>Susan - you teach a very strong leave it and then you proof, proof, and proof some more, until the behavior generalizes that that item is ALWAYS off limits. Same for areas (the tops of tables, etc). You can teach the leave-it however you want- shaping a leave-it is pretty simple, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan - you teach a very strong leave it and then you proof, proof, and proof some more, until the behavior generalizes that that item is ALWAYS off limits. Same for areas (the tops of tables, etc). You can teach the leave-it however you want- shaping a leave-it is pretty simple, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liz Palika</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489729</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz Palika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489729</guid>
		<description>Someone else will have to answer that, Susan, as I do not train using 100% positive. I use as much positive as the individual dog will allow - according to behaviors, problems, etc - but I do  say, &quot;No,&quot; when necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone else will have to answer that, Susan, as I do not train using 100% positive. I use as much positive as the individual dog will allow - according to behaviors, problems, etc - but I do  say, &#8220;No,&#8221; when necessary.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489727</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489727</guid>
		<description>Cait and/or Liz, care to share specifics? How, for example, do you teach a dog (who, btw, does have her CGC, to stay away from the toilet paper -- and do so using positive methods?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cait and/or Liz, care to share specifics? How, for example, do you teach a dog (who, btw, does have her CGC, to stay away from the toilet paper &#8212; and do so using positive methods?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liz Palika</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489722</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz Palika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489722</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Cait - exactly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Cait - exactly!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cait</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489721</link>
		<dc:creator>Cait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489721</guid>
		<description>Susan, I&#039;d agree that they&#039;re management problems while the dog is learning. But dogs ARE perfectly capable of learning that certain things are off limits, physical boundaries or not. 

Sensible trainers don&#039;t always rely on this (or no one who trained their dogs would have fences) but at the same time, you CAN raise a dog who is a perfectly lovely companion that you expect him not to touch things that aren&#039;t his- and to stay out of areas that are off limits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan, I&#8217;d agree that they&#8217;re management problems while the dog is learning. But dogs ARE perfectly capable of learning that certain things are off limits, physical boundaries or not. </p>
<p>Sensible trainers don&#8217;t always rely on this (or no one who trained their dogs would have fences) but at the same time, you CAN raise a dog who is a perfectly lovely companion that you expect him not to touch things that aren&#8217;t his- and to stay out of areas that are off limits.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2010/07/13/aim-high-deepening-the-human-dog-bond-through-training/comment-page-1/#comment-489720</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=16496#comment-489720</guid>
		<description>Some of the problems you speak of seem to me (garbage can raiding, toilet paper shredding) to be problems that lend themselves to management rather than training. OTOH, if you&#039;ve got a positive method for teaching a dog not to indulge in such behaviors, I&#039;m all ears :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the problems you speak of seem to me (garbage can raiding, toilet paper shredding) to be problems that lend themselves to management rather than training. OTOH, if you&#8217;ve got a positive method for teaching a dog not to indulge in such behaviors, I&#8217;m all ears :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

