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Confessions of a dog-training heretic
By Christie Keith
June 14, 2010
Dog training is boring.
Well, you probably love it. People like different things — I mean, there are people out there who watch football, and that bores me even more than training my dog. But me? I really, really don’t care for dog training. I’d rather defrost my freezer.
I made a passing remark to some dog friends a few weeks ago, admitting that I didn’t like to train dogs and that I was not looking forward to the next stage in my puppy’s training, where he learns to come when called — a potentially life-saving lesson, and one every dog needs to learn.
My friends went through something like the stages of grief. First, of course, was denial. “You don’t mean that,” said one of them.
When I assured her that I did, indeed, mean it, she just stared at me, stricken and bewildered.
Another friend seemed determined to fix whatever terrible flaw in my psyche or my training methods caused me to dislike something she not only loved, but had made her career. “You need to be happy and turn it into a game,” she said. “You can hide treats and let him find them, or lie on the ground and ‘play dead,’ and then reward him when he comes over to see what you’re doing.”
When I told her that didn’t seem like fun to me, she was visibly frustrated. “What do you like to do with your dogs?”
“I like to watch them run and play with other dogs,” I said. “I like to take them to the beach and see them chase the waves. I like to walk with them in the park or in the woods, and see them sniff and snuffle at interesting smells. I like to cuddle with them on the sofa and watch television. I like to take them with me to cafes and have people admire them.”
She contemplated me sadly. “You can’t do those things with an untrained dog, though.”
This is where I think my disappointed and disapproving dog friends are getting confused. Because of course I know that, and of course, I train my dogs. It’s just one of the many things in life I don’t like to do that I have to do anyway, like paying my bills and meeting deadlines.
But I don’t view my dislike of dog training as a handicap. I think it gives me valuable insight into the vast majority of dog owners who need and want their dogs to be trained, but just plain don’t like training them.
See, it may come as a shock to my dog friends, but most people are not like them. Most people do not consider small bits of cheese mixed with lint an acceptable and normal part of the lining of their coat pockets. They do not enjoy the positive vs. traditional training debate, and actually, don’t even know there is a debate. They don’t participate in organized dog sports and aren’t interested in improving their dogs’ times on the agility course by one-tenth of a second.
No, they’re like me, and what they want is a dog who doesn’t jump on people, eat the sofa, pull on the leash, pee in the living room, bark incessantly and develop an acute case of deafness when he hears the word “come.”
We know that means we need to train our dogs, and most of us suck it up and get the job done. And instead of trying to tell me I don’t feel how I feel, or shouldn’t feel how I feel, or could feel differently if only I adopted their foolproof method for painless dog training, I think it would be helpful if more dog trainers instead accepted that I’m not the only dog owner who feels this way, and that there’s really nothing weird about us.
It’s possible to love your dog and be a good dog owner and have a nicely-behaved dog, even if you don’t enjoy dog training. It really is. I promise.
Photo: Rawley, lying quietly at my feet at our favorite dog-friendly cafe.
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Oh God. You said it all.
Comment by Susan — June 14, 2010 @ 4:21 pm
Christie, I’m constantly amazed how much you and I have in common. Except the football thing. I think you might have a problem there. We can discuss that some other time, though.
Comment by David S. Greene — June 14, 2010 @ 4:27 pm
Me three.
Comment by Kim Thornton — June 14, 2010 @ 4:34 pm
I loved your honesty!! And I will tell you that you are not alone. I have spent my entire dog owning life feeling inadequate as a dog owner because I don’t spend every waking minute training my dog to do sporting activities. To be honest I don’t even read dog forums anymore except this one because It makes me feel so inadequate. I don’t know where the people have the time to breathe with all the dog training activities they do. I think it is great that they do this, but I just can’t do it myself.
But my dog is trained to the extent that I require to have a well behaved companion and engage in the every day activities that we do together and to save his life if necessary.
I have to tell you about what happened last week, which highlights the importance of training the come and is not really about whether training is fun or not. I hope you don’t mind. You never know if your dog is really trained until something real actually happens. I found out last week that all those months of hard work, even if it was not so enjoyable, did pay off. I have to be honest it was shocking. And it is an experience that motivates me to make sure I keep training necessary commands.
There is a dog in my neighborhood that my dog hates. I cannot undo the hate. My dog is now nine and he just hates this dog. The owners are not dog savvy and over the years twice a day they walk by my house, let their large male come all the way onto my property with a flexi lead, pee on my property, aggress towards my cats in the window, stand erect and stare at my dog while he is in the front door and on and on. It has built such a frustration in my dog. And when I asked them to please stop or walk across the street the response was but this is the way we walk to the deli. I didn’t convey my message as there was no receiver.
My husband is a moron and he left the yard gate open to bring in some dirt not realizing my dog was in the yard. You know what is coming. Well the hated dog walks by of course on the only occasion in nine years that the gate is left open. My dog shoots out of the yard with noises I have never heard in my life and I expect there to be certain maiming of two dogs. My husband is out front. As my dog reaches his nemesis, he yells come and guess what??? My dog stopped dead in his tracks and came. Oh my God!! You train and train and train and you wonder if it will actually work. It does!!
Comment by Nicole — June 14, 2010 @ 5:01 pm
I happened to enjoy training my dog because it taught me how to communicate with another species, which was a real thrill.
But he was my first dog, after thinking for most of my life that I’d never have one due to allergies.
As something to tackle over and over again, I’m not so sure. But it is something that must be done, one way or another, to be a responsible dog owner.
Comment by Susan Fox — June 14, 2010 @ 5:04 pm
I’m not into training either. Have you thought about tag teaming the chore? Thanks to Seamus, the terrier from hell, I broke down and had a professional come to the house. She had him eating out of her hand and kissing her feet in two minutes. She taught both of us and with her being there and helping it went quickly and was more enjoyable. Since you already know what to do and you have all those friends who are into it - maybe you can trick them into helping :-)
Comment by cheryl — June 14, 2010 @ 7:04 pm
A little barter seems in order… Hair cuts for dog training perhaps?
Comment by schnauzer — June 14, 2010 @ 7:43 pm
“I like to watch them run and play with other dogs,” I said. “I like to take them to the beach and see them chase the waves. I like to walk with them in the park or in the woods, and see them sniff and snuffle at interesting smells. I like to cuddle with them on the sofa and watch television. I like to take them with me to cafes and have people admire them.”
—-
Aside from that water and cafe thing, what you really like are large, long-legged cats.
Have you considered a cheetah?
:)
“I think it gives me valuable insight into the vast majority of dog owners who need and want their dogs to be trained, but just plain don’t like training them.”
A lot of people also don’t want to think or care about what they feed their dogs (or themselves). They think it’s “easier” just to get “yearly shots.” They think leaving a dog alone in a yard 10-12 hours a day while they’re at work and not paying them much attention otherwise is also just fine.
In short, “most” people want all the good parts of owning a dog, but none of the effort. (Kinda like what they want in their spousal relationships, a lot of times.)
That’s not you, and I’m not saying it is.
But I AM saying that suggesting there’s a potential for a different relationship, richer and more healthy on both ends of the leash in many cases, is not a bad thing for us “experts” to be doing, whether it comes to training, feeding or making healthcare choices for our pets.
Our preferences in dogs could not be more different, as we’ve noted many, many times. Your dogs seem aloof and kinda boring to me. My dogs drive you crazy with their constant motion and unquenchable desire to know what I’m doing and if they can help.
S’OK. That’s the glory of the differences in breed types, and yet another reason why I think it’s important to preserve these distinctions, which are quite remarkable. So you can have your quiet, well-mannered, lovely and massive sighthounds and I have have my intense, always active, highly competitive, wonderfully trainable and utterly into me sporting and herding dogs — dogs who want to be my working partner, not my companion.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — June 15, 2010 @ 6:55 am
Gina - WORD.
This is so why it’s important to help a family get a dog that is a good match! If you don’t like to train (and unlike Christie who is sucking it up and doing it anyway even if she finds it boring), don’t get a dog who needs it. Get an adult with established nice manners, preferably of a naturally mannerly breed like the sighthounds- and then realize that you *will* have to manage the dog’s behavior sometimes by preventing access to things (like counter tops or off-leash, unfenced playtimes- where a better trained dog might be able to safely have access to those.
I honestly do think some things about our lives today are not conducive to producing dogs with manners without being veyr intentional about it. And that means training has to be a conscious act, rather than something that just happens as the dog goes through your life with you and gets told what to do- and told off for what not to do!
Comment by Cait — June 15, 2010 @ 8:00 am
“They don’t participate in organized dog sports and aren’t interested in improving their dogs’ times on the agility course by one-tenth of a second.”
I also gotta say here:
Having watched some of the best agility TEAMS of all times … it’s NOT ABOUT improving the time. It’s about hitting that higher level of intense bonded “oneness” in which you and your dog are a single, fluid, graceful being.
You thrill to the double-suspension gallop of a dog who, when he is in the chase, doesn’t know you exist. It’s him, the terrain, and the prey.
I love seeing that, too, but I also love seeing a dog working at the top of his game, as part of a team. Working as one.
It’s different. Not better. But definitely different.
I also suspect training isn’t a chore for me because with the kind of dogs I have it’s so rewarding, and constantly so in ways large and small. They love “getting it” and they show that.
Your sighthounds are probably as little interested in training and learning as you are in training and teaching, so the rewards are few and rare for you both.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — June 15, 2010 @ 8:19 am
Okay, staying out of this one. LOL
Am/Can Ch Applegarth Knight of Fire CDX RE OA OAJ NF NAP NJP NAC Can CD CGC
Marquis Ladyhawke CD RA NAP NJP CGC (yet still Queen of the Bad Girlz Club)
Milbrose Winter Storm Warning (wasn’t going to do a thing with him. Working on rally. It’s a sickness I tell you. I can’t quit)
Comment by Jill — June 15, 2010 @ 8:42 am
Went up and got coffee … still thinking …
Exercise.
My friend Bob, who manages a running gear shop, runs in ultramarathons (100 miles or more) “for fun.” My friend Robyn, a personal trainer who has run the occasional marathon, finds the ultramarathon idea abhorrent. They are both as fit as fit can be.
Robyn wants to nurture her body, and have it humming always like a perfectly designed and perfectly tuned machine. Bob wants to test the extremes of his mental and physical endurance, and come through triumphant. Robyn thinks endurance running is punishing. Bob thinks working out in a gym is boring.
Two people who could not be more interested in or more dedicated to being fit and healthy, inside and out. But for completely different reasons and with completely different goals.
Individual differences matter.
I would not say that because “most” people don’t dig running or gym work that means that either Bob or Robyn is more in touch with what “most” people think about exercise. “Most” people wish they could take a pill and lose weight, after all, without exercise or any change in eating habits.
Christie, I have listened to you rant about health and nutrition for years. Just because you don’t rant about training doesn’t make you like “most” people, sorry babe, it just doesn’t. :)
Comment by Gina Spadafori — June 15, 2010 @ 8:53 am
This is why I offer “day training,” where I work directly with the dog for 3 sessions and on the 4th session I teach the owners how to maintain the behavior (coming when called, walking on a loose leash, sitting and staying on cue, going to their mat or bed or crate, etc.). :-)
Comment by Ann Dupuis — June 15, 2010 @ 9:47 am
I know I was one of the ones who reacted to Christie’s initial post about hating dog training and, since dog training is one of my professions, I was going to stay out of this one. BUT….sometimes I can’t keep my mouth shut.
Why do I train my dogs? Because I love the communication it opens up. I love it when I whisper and my dogs stare at me, eyes open wide, asking, “What? What can we do?”
I love it when my dogs second guess me because they know me so well.
I love the things we do together that require cooperation - we’re a team - and I must do my part as much as my dogs must do theirs.
As much as I hate to admit it, I also love showing off. When people come to class and see what a dog CAN do they are often amazed.
Now I agree that not everyone has the same needs and expectations that I have - I understand that. But when people watch Bashir or Archer for just a few minutes and say, “Wow!” I hope to raise their expectations for their own dog just a little.
A local veterinarian is attending my classes now with her very hyper field lines Lab. She asked, in class, the other day, “Can you and Bashir demo heel off leash again, please?” Bashir and I did and I asked the vet, “Is that good?” She said yes and I asked - because her dog isn’t ready for off leash heel yet - “What are you trying to do? What did you need to see?” Her answer was, “I just wanted a visualization in my head of what we’re working towards.”
That is one of the reasons why I teach dog training classes. That and the woman who emailed last week and said her dog did a leave it and down stay away from the rattlesnake in her back yard, and the woman whose dog did a stand stay on command when she fell, thereby helping her up off the floor, and the dog who no longer charges guests at the front door, and…….
And you know what, I never do set ‘training sessions’ with my own dogs. Why? Because I find them boring! My dogs learn all the time. They are with me all day - except when I go to the store - and they’re always learning. They learn when I’m working at the computer not to bother me. When we’re playing they learn to come when I call as they’re bringing back the ball. We play tricks and trick training in the living room during the news. And so on…..
Comment by Liz Palika — June 15, 2010 @ 10:00 am
For me to enjoy having a dog, that dog needs to be reasonably well-behaved, and that’s why I train her. And yes, training does open up a channel of communication between person and dog, because training is really a two-way street :) My dog has trained me as much as I’ve trained her.
But I’ve concluded that I’m not really interested in having my dog compete in organized sports for dogs (neither is she) any more than she’s really interested in having me compete in organized sports for humans (and neither am I).
Comment by Susan — June 15, 2010 @ 11:47 am
Two weeks ago I would have been one of those people who stared at you in abject horror when told you didn’t enjoy dog training. Heaven knows I know better, but it’s easy to develop a rather skewed view of reality when one is surrounded by people who adore training, learning theory, etc.
Last week was a week of eye-opening extremes. On one hand, the first half of the week was spent at a national breed-specific specialty, immersed fully in the World of Dog. These people are hardcore, be their particular flavor training, grooming, or knowing the bloodline of every dog in the place.
The later half of the week was spent with my family and their two dogs, who are largely untrained. Their owners have little interest or concern when it comes to their dogs’ education levels, and simply manage as needed. Both dogs are absolutely adored every day of their lives and are not allowed to be nuisances to those around them…they are healthy, happy, and walked daily (on lead!!).
While my feelings toward training are quite different, we are aligned on one point: no matter how much I love training and playing with my dogs (competitively or otherwise), having them accompany me through the various experiences of life and watching them interact with the world in their varied and unique ways is one of my favorite things.
Comment by Michelle — June 15, 2010 @ 12:10 pm
“And you know what, I never do set ‘training sessions’ with my own dogs. Why? Because I find them boring! My dogs learn all the time. They are with me all day - except when I go to the store - and they’re always learning.”
Liz - I completely and totally agree with this paragraph. My dogs know hundreds of commands and cue words without more than a handful of “real” training sessions.
We “real” train leave it, come and targeting. Everything else comes from simply spending as much time together as possible and using words for things like you would a child. Subsequently, when I tell one of the dogs to “go upstairs in the tub and wait for your bath” I can then walk upstairs to the bathtub and there sits a dog, awaiting a fresh shower.
Comment by Kim — June 15, 2010 @ 12:41 pm
Kim: Exactly!
And you know my dogs - they are not well-trained robots! They think, and feel, and react to the world around them.
Comment by Liz Palika — June 15, 2010 @ 1:08 pm
Now I know for sure that you, me and Gina were separated at birth. Amen to what you said.
Comment by Dr. Patty Khuly — June 15, 2010 @ 5:41 pm
It’s a huge misconception that dogs that have undergone more “training” for sports or work are more mannerly than well cared-for pet dogs, as a group.
It wasn’t until I got around the most heavily-blinkered dog sports enthusiasts — and a certain subset of “SAR” handlers — that I heard the more advanced excuses for extreme ill-behavior by allegedly trained dogs.
There are plenty of multiply-titled “sport” dogs that are managed with crates and gates and kennels at home and have no idea how to behave in a normal social situation.
There are plenty of such dogs who have poorer recalls than I expect out of a foster dog after three weeks, and are *never* off-leash except in a ring.
Plenty of their handlers who stare incredulously at the suggestion of an off-leash hike. As if it was some kind of rocket science, or that dogs were inherently unreliable creatures.
This phenomenon transcends methodological boundaries; I saw it in the 70’s with a few traditional trainers who were hyper-focused on competition, and it is rampant nowadays among the “only fifteen months of clicking to a solid-sit-stay” crowd.
So I don’t assume that a serious dog owner who says “I hate training” means “I don’t intend to train my dog to be safe and mannerly.”
I figure it means that she isn’t interested in teaching heeling drills, parlor tricks, or differential calculus.
Probably someone who shouldn’t buy a border collie, but that’s true of most of us.
Comment by H. Houlahan — June 15, 2010 @ 6:55 pm
In short, “most” people want all the good parts of owning a dog, but none of the effort. (Kinda like what they want in their spousal relationships, a lot of times.)
Comment by Gina Spadafori — June 15, 2010 @ 6:55 am
Oh yes, yes to this one. I say it all the time, especially to parents — a pet is a relationship and a JOB. It is both. Kids, especially, want the relationship, not the job.
To expect to “teach a child responsibility” by bringing home a pet is for them to PRACTICE on is … it’s a lot of things, maddening, sad, stupid.
I say start with a garden. If they can’t take care of some plants they surely will not take care of litter boxes, poop in yard, water bowls, etc.
Comment by Mary Mary — June 15, 2010 @ 8:22 pm
For myself I like training, but I can totally see where you are coming from, Christie. And with a different dog than a (we think) border collie/lab mutt, I could have very well made a different decision. Training can be frustrating. The other day I actually made myself cry (not a huge crier, here, I hate crying) because something happened that I didn’t know how to handle, I reacted wrongly and really felt like I had let my dog down when he trusted me to always know what the right thing to do is.
…that doesn’t happen when we are snuggling on the couch, that’s for sure.
Comment by Original Lori — June 16, 2010 @ 7:07 am
Even though I enjoy training my dogs, I can get how some people don’t enjoy it. And I totally respect that Christie can still slog through the training with resultant well-mannered dogs to enjoy. But HOW do you not like football?!
Maybe this will help: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7.....833005085/
Comment by Katie Bruesewitz — June 16, 2010 @ 7:57 am
Hey, Katie … how about a more recent photo of my grandpuppy? Since you’re supposed to be working outside today, anyway …
Comment by Gina Spadafori — June 16, 2010 @ 9:07 am
Ok, so you got me. I love training. I love watching people train their dogs, and I love seeing the “aha!” moments of owner and dogs, including my own. I love seeing bonds form where there were none and I love using behavior science to help people reach their goals. I even love working with people who don’t want to be in class or in a private session, when they get their desired results. I love watching my dogs run off leash in the woods and at the beach and I love giving other dogs freedom to do so safely. I wouldn’t say I love what my pockets look like, but I have the option of using a bait bag. Maybe that is why I want another Border Collie? :)
Comment by Nancy Freedman-Smith — June 17, 2010 @ 2:10 pm
In short, “most” people want all the good parts of owning a dog, but none of the effort.
Well, I want that too. I also want to take a pill to lose weight and win the lottery and never have to work another day in my life.
It’s the difference between what we WANT and what we CAN HAVE, as well as between what we like and what we don’t.
I accept I have to train my dogs, and I also accept that I can’t feed them how I want to feed them without making my food myself (or, I guess, hiring a doggy chef, LOL). But no, I’d much rather not do it. I would enjoy it a lot if I could just wave a magic wand and protect them from diseases, feed them perfectly and have them be well-trained.
That’s kind of my point, really.
Now, there are elements of raising my dogs I’d never, ever give up, but those are not among them.
Comment by Christie Keith — June 17, 2010 @ 3:01 pm
But when people watch Bashir or Archer for just a few minutes and say, “Wow!” I hope to raise their expectations for their own dog just a little.
Liz, but doesn’t even that pre-suppose I’ll find it inspirational?
I’ve seen, arguably, some of the best-trained dogs in the country. I lived with a woman who trained wild animals at Moorpark as well as trained dogs; her dog would hold a biscuit on his nose and wait until she said “okay” to snap it up. I have friends who do ring sport, tracking, and high level obedience (with herding dogs).
I admire it the way I admire Olympic skating: it’s cool and a huge amount of work and even an art, but it doesn’t make me want to go out and take skating lessons.
Comment by Christie Keith — June 17, 2010 @ 3:05 pm
So I don’t assume that a serious dog owner who says “I hate training” means “I don’t intend to train my dog to be safe and mannerly.”
That was very much what I meant, and even came right out and said, but a lot of the people with the training stars in their eyes just felt that meant my dog would be untrained because, apparently, no one ever does things they don’t want to do, LOL!
Probably someone who shouldn’t buy a border collie, but that’s true of most of us.
Word.
Comment by Christie Keith — June 17, 2010 @ 3:10 pm
Very interesting read, and I think you nailed it, Christie.
I can see how training can be more interesting to others for many and various reasons, and I can also see how some view it as a necessary evil, and then I can see those who want to wave the magic wand to have a well-behaved dog and aren’t willing to put forth the effort to make it happen.
I brought this up on one of Heather’s earlier posts, but your entry illustrates my questioning as to WHY trainers, especially ones who have well-trained, happy, reliable dogs that respond immediately and when commanded in any situation, must have some type of titling on dogs in order to be “recommended.” I can see how some people MIGHT want to go into sports, whether obedience, agility, rally or what-have-you…but in order to do those anyway, the foundation must be built and built properly. Whether or not a trainer has titled a dog, if the results are what the owner is willing to work toward and put in that effort for, even with the mindset that you have, then that is what they want.
I love training, by the way…it can be frustrating, but for me, it’s worth it in the end. There are a lot of good viewpoints here as well, the comments are great reads!
Comment by Viatecio — July 5, 2010 @ 2:01 pm
I have many years of experience training dogs and people. I even get paid for it.
I do not compete and have no real desire to. I admire the desire in others, and I like to watch dogs at work doing what they were bred and/or trained to do. I hav alot of respect especially for those who put effort and time into using their dog to do what they were actually bred for. And I have tons of respect for trainers who own “atypical” dogs and train them up nicely (as opposed to the standard “dog trainer” dogs). Any dog trainer worth a Zuke’s treat can train a BC, Malinois, or Aussie. Show me the big dude who has expertly-trained Chihuahuas, or an off-leash reliable Greyhound, and I’ll be impressed.
I fully understand that pet owners are not dog trainers, and that’s why training should be easy, relatively fun/interesting, and not too expensive. It should be tailored to the students as much as possible, and inspire them without mocking them. Trainers who give dog owners 6 pages of homework to be done each week, including ridiculous “solutions” like (for the dog who “acts up” when people come to the house) “make sure at least 10 people come to your house every day so that you can have a leash on Buster and treats ready to work him as they are coming in” are simply not living in a world I am familiar with.
Who has 10 visitors a day? 5? 2? I have 2 A MONTH. It’s not because I don’t have friends; it’s because I have a life.
Dog owners have lives that do not revolve around their dogs, and that is normal. So solutions for their problems need to work for them. In a decent amount of time. In between all the other things they do in their lives.
If you are so enigmatic that the sight of you working with your dogs can truly inspire a regular Joe to pick up the leash and become a trial guru, I’m all for it. It does happen.
It just doesn’t happen often. C’est la vie.
Comment by Pooch Professor — July 5, 2010 @ 2:32 pm
Dear Doggers,
Ms. Keith writes:“I like to watch them run and play with other dogs,” I said. “I like to take them to the beach and see them chase the waves. I like to walk with them in the park or in the woods, and see them sniff and snuffle at interesting smells. I like to cuddle with them on the sofa and watch television. I like to take them with me to cafes and have people admire them.”
and
?We know that means we need to train our dogs, and most of us suck it up and get the job done. And instead of trying to tell me I don’t feel how I feel, or shouldn’t feel how I feel, or could feel differently if only I adopted their foolproof method for painless dog training, I think it would be helpful if more dog trainers instead accepted that I’m not the only dog owner who feels this way, and that there’s really nothing weird about us.”
I’ve no doubt most people don’t enjoy dog training. At a guess, most people don’t do any systematic dog training period. They just expect certain dog behaviors - more or less - and get them - more or less. Okay by me. Just because I’d rather have a glass of Chateau Yquem than a can of Bud Light doesn’t I’m worth 2 cents more than the Bud Light drinker. De gustibus and all that. And if an unmannerly dog thinks about attacking my dog - why; that’s what boots are for.
I did enjoy reading about the highly trained behaviors Ms. Keith thinks she hasn’t trained. In my experience: adult dogs don’t usually play with other adult dogs - they play because we humans infantilize dogs and prefer dog self-exercising. Dogs like being admired and fondled by strangers in outdoor cafes about as much as Ms. Keith does. Television is meaningless to them and many/ most, would prefer not cuddling to cuddling.
But dogs are wonderfully maleable. They’ll do their level best to become our fantasies of them.
Dogs who couldn’t read and respond to human desires didn’t live to breed - that’s why they are so brilliantly easy to train -whatever method you choose and/or by no consistent method at all. Dogs didn’t need Wm. Koehler or BF Skinner to get along with humans.
Ms. Keith’s expectations -whether those expectations are dog savvy or dog ignorant - will likely produce pretty much the dog she wants.
Happy owner/happy dog.
Donald McCaig
Comment by donald mccaig — July 6, 2010 @ 3:21 am
Not to disagree with the great Mr. McCaig, but it’s been my observation that dogs, like humans, like different things. Some of it is breed; every retriever or retriever mix my sister has had, has loved playing fetch, has been really disappointed when the human’s arm wears out and needs a rest. My border collie that I had when I was younger and healthier was far more interested in going to the park and learning new ways for us to go over, under, around, and through the natural obstacles we found there. She would play fetch, but it was clear she was just indulging me.
Both my sister’s current Lab, and my current dog, a Chinese Crested, really perk up at the opportunity to run and play with other dogs. This is at the ages of seven and four, respectively, so I suppose you’d say they are adults. My sister’s immediately preceding Lab would have agreed with Mr. McCaig that there so no real point in playing with other dogs. So would my BC, many years ago, though she always seemed pleased to meet other dogs and just hang out with them.
And, sorry, Mr. McCaig, but my dog loves being fondled and admired—by friends, neighbors, people slightly known, and total strangers, in a way that would have me calling 911 and screaming for help.
Yes, dogs are highly trainable, and respond to their people, but also, once people know something about dogs, they tend to seek out dogs who are naturally inclined towards the activities they want to share with their dogs. You’re quite right that my dog has no real interest in tv, but she does, for choice, curl up on the couch beside me, or in my lap, depending on how warm or cold it is. She also exhibits real pleasure in going out and meeting people, and getting petted and fondled, in a way my sister’s dog doesn’t care to tolerate from anyone except family and friends. That’s why my dog and I visit nursing homes, and my sister and her dog don’t.
Not every dog is a border collie, anymore than every dog is, or should be, a terrier. And the last I checked, Christie has sighthounds—dogs notorious for being “40 mile an hour couch potatoes.” I bet she really does know what they like, better than someone who has never met them and whose greatest interest is in another (quite wonderful!) breed.
Comment by Lis — July 6, 2010 @ 6:05 am
Dear Doggers,
While I am grateful to learn that not every dog is a Border Collie, I’m afraid I believe that dogs try -more or less successfully - to play to their most important audience, whether the audience’s beliefs make dog sense or not.
I was also glad to learn that breeds differ and that, moreover, individuals within breeds are not carbon copies. The salukis and greyhounds I saw pursuing western hares were splendid beasts and highly unsuitable couch potatoes.
Yes, some adult dogs are playful; some are designated puppies, and I can even believe that a few are natural cuddlers - though what evolutionary purpose that might serve is a hard to imagine.
But I believe most playful dogs and cuddly dogs embody modern American pet owners’ expectations. Some years ago I attended the Westmknster Kennel Club Dog Show and was startled by immature behaviors in Australian Shepherds I had only known as working dogs. When I asked “How come?” a dog shower replied, “Oh, we like to keep them puppies as long as possible.”
Dogs do what they can to answer our needs. - if those needs are consistent , not too crazy, and if, with our unwitting or deliberate help, the dog can figure them out.
Donald McCaig
Comment by donald mccaig — July 6, 2010 @ 6:56 am
Some years ago I attended the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show
Comment by donald mccaig — July 6, 2010
It makes me vaguely ill to think about how long ago that was. I need to get to Virginia someday and visit some people on their “home turf.” I hope you’ll allow yourself to be on of those people. Love to see you again!
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 6, 2010 @ 7:23 am
Funny, isn’t it, that my dogs twist themselves into hideous knots to please me by lying on the sofa with head in lap, but decline to do so to take a piece of cheese from my hand on the other side of the room?
I know myself well enough to know that I couldn’t live with a Border Collie. I know Deerhounds well enough to know what they do and don’t like. As to them adapting themselves to give us what we want, thus speaks a man who doesn’t have hounds.
Comment by Christie Keith — July 6, 2010 @ 8:24 am
I am glad that Christie is getting bored enough with her vacation to read the comments and add to them. I hope that means she will be returning to work 24/7 next week.
And I can attest that her sighthounds are not dogs as I have experienced them. Her dogs are bemused by human activities and generally don’t give a damn what others think of them or want them to do.
They are, in other words, cats.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 6, 2010 @ 9:34 am
Gina, I keep trying to convince my friend with IWs that she actually has very fluffy lions, but so far, she doesn’t believe me.
Comment by Cait — July 6, 2010 @ 9:44 am
I always told people that living with a Greyhound was like living with a giant cat.
Comment by Kim Thornton — July 6, 2010 @ 12:44 pm