DNA dog breed testing: Fun and useful, too
By Dr. Marty Becker
December 18, 2009
The owners of my patients are always bringing me a newly adopted dog of unknown ancestry and asking me, “So, doctor, what kind of dog is he?”
I used to just look wise and knowledgeable and give my best guess, which was probably about as reliable as throwing a dart at that nifty breed chart the pet food companies give us to hang on our exam room walls.
Today, I can offer them a simple DNA test that will give them the scientific lowdown on their mutt’s background.
Now, knowing what breeds make up your mixed-breed dog won’t make you love him any more. It won’t make it easier to scoop up after him, either. But it can help owners of a new pet make a better guess about his potential behavior issues and traits, and it can also put them on the lookout for possible breed-related health problems.
Of course, for most pet owners, the main appeal of these new DNA tests is finding out if their guess is right. I know when Wisdom Panel asked me to be their spokesperson last year, I couldn’t wait to test my dog Quixote, who we’d been told was a mix of Papillon, Poodle, and Yorkie.
As Pet Connection readers might remember, whoever told us that was wrong. Turns out his DNA came from a Pomeranian, a Chihuahua and a Yorkie. In other words, a Porkahuahua.
But I enjoyed the guessing game so much I decided to do it again, this time on my own dime. We’re waiting on the results of a DNA test for our dog Quora, pictured above (UPDATE: additional photos here and here.) None of our readers got it right for Quixote — although Christie almost did, guessing Pomeranian and Chihuahua – but we’ll give a signed copy of any of the “Ultimate” books Gina and I have written including our latest, “The Ultimate Bird-Lover,” which the winner will get before it hits stores in February.
To help you guess, let me tell you a little bit about her. She is 5 years old. We got her at age 3 from a Petsmart Adoptathon. She weighs 16 pounds. She loves to be held and lies very still. She doesn’t bark excessively, but has a rather shrill bark. She does have separation anxiety and is on medication for it (Reconcile).
She loves to chew up shoes. So much so that one of her nicknames is Imelda Barkos. She also sheds like crazy, leading to the nickname the Hairy Handgrenade.
Post your guesses in the comments section any time before Sunday, December 27 at 11:59 PM Pacific (California) time, and I’ll announce the DNA test results, and the winners, on Tuesday, December 29.
And on the more serious side, sure, it’s fun to know the breed makeup of a mixed breed dog and be able to respond with authority when somebody asks of your Heinz 57, “What kind of dog is that anyway?”
But as a veterinarian, the real value for me is knowing about some breed-related health risks. For example, if the dog is part Scottish Terrier, he could be more prone to bladder cancer from lawn chemicals and needs to be protected.
If she is part Collie, then we need to keep her away from oral compounds that contain Ivermectin (common in many parasite and heartworm products). Part Pug? We’ll need to watch for retained teeth that are only seen on a dental x-ray.
Understanding the dog’s makeup also allows us to understand, then modify, certain behaviors. Terriers, for instance, gotta dig, so knowing our shelter mutt’s part Terrier means we can provide a tantalizing digging zone in a location of our choosing, and head problems off at the pass.
Think you might want to test your dog? The tests run anywhere from $75 to $150 dollars (more in Manhattan and less in Memphis).
Some DNA tests are done with cheek swabs and can be done by pet owners with a kit, while others require a blood sample and are only done through veterinarians. Check with your vet and see which he recommends for your pet. And let us know how close you came to guessing on your own — and don’t forget to guess about Quora!
Update from Gina: We’re going to have a lot of people guessing the same thing, judging from the early guesses. So if we’ll draw for THREE winners from all the people who get it right, and each will get a signed book. I upped the ante because I had to change “the rules” a little! And obviously, if you want to get the book, please use your real e-mail addy so we can contact you if you’re the winner.
I think she’s Corgi/Chihuahua :) so cute!
Comment by Courtney Thomas — December 18, 2009 @ 6:21 am
Another vote for Corgi/Chihuahua, with maybe a little something else - Pom?
We played this game with our dog too - definitely English Foxhound and Lab. The rescue group thought he was a Pointer which… um? http://bit.ly/6tKmJT
Comment by Jen_Ann_W — December 18, 2009 @ 6:39 am
That’s what I was gonna say!
So I’ll add “dachshund”….
Corgi, chi, dachshund
Comment by One rescue — December 18, 2009 @ 6:41 am
I think that she could be a Corgi/Basenji mix. She is a cutie!!
Comment by Beth Brock — December 18, 2009 @ 6:45 am
My guess is Corgi/Scottish Terrier. She is certainly adorable.
Comment by Colorado Transplant — December 18, 2009 @ 7:08 am
Sounds like we all think corgi/chi ! Maybe a little rat terrier or jack russell in the mix too.
Comment by Leslie K — December 18, 2009 @ 7:10 am
Chihuahua mix…with what I can’t say.
I think the person who mentioned Corgi/Chihuahua might have it.
Comment by Ark Lady — December 18, 2009 @ 7:16 am
Jack Russel/Shiba Inu? It would be easier to guess if she was standing in the photo rather than on her back. Still, I want to rub that tummy.
Comment by Cynthia M — December 18, 2009 @ 7:25 am
Manchester,Chihuahua,corgi,mix
Comment by Marylon Tanner — December 18, 2009 @ 7:45 am
Is there any research showing that these tests are accurate? I’ve heard of people sending in samples from dogs known to be purebred and getting back results indicating that the dog is an unusual mix.
Comment by SusanS — December 18, 2009 @ 8:12 am
Gina and Dr. Becker, I’ve got to ask you before I guess- what does her tail look like? Thanks!
Comment by Peggy Frezon — December 18, 2009 @ 8:15 am
I just asked Dr. Becker for more pics. He said, “When she wakes up.”
As for accuracy, well, there’s this:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/ar.....cation.htm
And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a4CDvK868w
Both seem to be using the same company’s product — the do-it-home swab not the vet-done blood draw. Not sure if that means anything.
I ought to test Drew the AKC Sheltie and one or both of the AKC champion flat-coated retrievers and see what I get. Fun project for New Year!
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 18, 2009 @ 8:58 am
I just updated with links to two additional photos of Quora. :)
Comment by Christie Keith — December 18, 2009 @ 8:58 am
When Quora wakes up (she’s only slept 18 of the last 24 hours!), I’ll take off her snow suit (the Hairy HandGrenade just got trimmed so don’t be thrown off by the change in coat length and/or color) and take a standing picture so you can see her wasp waist and tail that starts South and ends up North.
Comment by Dr. Marty Becker — December 18, 2009 @ 9:04 am
Corgi / Jack Russell with just a pinch of Lhasa Apso
Comment by schnauzer — December 18, 2009 @ 9:23 am
I think she is corgi/jack russell and maybe some spaniel
Comment by Nicki — December 18, 2009 @ 9:25 am
Dr. Becker, I find it rather disturbing that you do not mention that you are a paid consultant to Mars Veterinary and are used in their ad campaign as a product endorser for their “doggie DNA test.”
See >> http://www.youtube.com/user/WisdomPanel
See >> http://www.marsveterinary.com/PR10032007.aspx
See >> http://www.1260.am/programming…..p/?ID=1749
As for the Mars Test, it is pure crap as has been demonstrated again and again. In fact, as I have noted, it so unreliable that there is a legal notice that comes with the product which says the test cannot tell the breed if the breed is actully known! See >> http://terriermandotcom.blogsp…..tests.html
PBurns
http://www.terrierman.com
Comment by PBurns — December 18, 2009 @ 9:45 am
I find it rather disturbing that you do not note for the readers of this blog that you are a paid representative for the Wisdom Panel test.
Comment by PBurns — December 18, 2009
Patrick … he does:
“I know when Wisdom Panel asked me to be their spokesperson last year, I couldn’t wait to test my dog Quixote, who we’d been told was a mix of Papillon, Poodle, and Yorkie.”
As to your second point, lighten up a little.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 18, 2009 @ 10:07 am
OK, I’ll play . . . I think Pomeranian, Chihuahua mix, maybe with some other secret ingredients (smidge of Jack Russell perhaps?)
Comment by chris — December 18, 2009 @ 10:22 am
I make the guess of Chihuahua/Pekingese
Comment by Jennifer — December 18, 2009 @ 10:24 am
Where are the double-blinded studies showing that these tests can accurately determine the breed or mix of a dog of known ancestry?
Because every time that I know of that a consumer has sent in a sample and paid the money in order to test the product, it has come back with gobbledygook.
In a world in which BSL can pronounce a death sentence for an innocent dog, “DNA breed ID” is NOT a harmless party trick. This is serious stuff, and I am shocked to see it represented as “fun ‘n’ games” here.
Nor should it be up to consumers to test the system at their own expense. The people selling it should be able to demonstrate up front that it is accurate.
If she is part Collie, then we need to keep her away from oral compounds that contain Ivermectin (common in many parasite and heartworm products).
No, you don’t.
If you suspect she has ancestry among the collie family of breeds — not just “collie” — then it is a good idea to get her tested for the MDR1 mutation, so that you actually know her phenotype. That’s what those of us with collie-family dogs do — test for the mutation in any animal who is not the offspring of two known normal/normal parents.
That’s a DNA test that actually has gone through rigorous testing and been shown to be accurate and useful.
I call “hypoallergenic cat” on these “tests.”
Comment by H. Houlahan — December 18, 2009 @ 10:43 am
Heather, I see your points, and that’s fine.
But really, we were just trying to do something fun for the holiday season.
So shoot us.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 18, 2009 @ 10:56 am
Two new photos of Quora here!
Comment by Christie Keith — December 18, 2009 @ 11:39 am
My friend has a dog of unknown ancestry and we’ve always wondered what in the world could he be - we need a DNA test. In lieu of a test - we just call him an “Arctic” dog and the vet staff always says that’s not a breed. Maybe it should be.
Comment by Snoopys Friend — December 18, 2009 @ 11:45 am
I think it is a 100 percent pure Canardly— I canardly tell what kind of dog it is!
Comment by retrieverman — December 18, 2009 @ 11:58 am
I forgot to guess: Quora is Chi and Spaniel
Comment by Snoopys Friend — December 18, 2009 @ 12:05 pm
I saw a dog that was a cross between a Norwegian Elkhound and a chihuahua (and it was used as a squirrel dog!) He looked a lot like this!
Comment by retrieverman — December 18, 2009 @ 12:11 pm
I think Chihuahua/Shiba Inu
She’s adorable.
Comment by Jen — December 18, 2009 @ 12:26 pm
I’ll guess chi/spaniel/terrier; but I can’t commit to exactly what kind of spaniel and terrier. It’ll sure be fun to get the test results. But honestly, she’s so darn cute, who cares? “Lovable” has no genetic code in my book.
Comment by Rori — December 18, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
Shoot, I’m changing my vote in lieu of the new pics - Shiba/Chi.
Comment by Jen_Ann_W — December 18, 2009 @ 1:19 pm
I am changing my vote, also.
Pomerian, Yorkie and Chihuahua is my guess as to the truth of Quora’s heritage.
Anyway, she is darn cute and a show-off, which makes her even cuter.
Comment by Colorado Transplant — December 18, 2009 @ 2:16 pm
I’m guessing Corgi because of her ears, and a little Springer Spaniel because of the freckles on her front leg.
Comment by Peggy Frezon — December 18, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
I’ll guess. Hmmm, Shiba Inu, Chihuahua, and Rat Terrier.
Comment by Amber — December 18, 2009 @ 3:35 pm
” think it is a 100 percent pure Canardly— I canardly tell what kind of dog it is!
Comment by retrieverman — December 18, 2009 @ 11:58 am “
Chortle.
Bet the test will come back with a fair percentage of Borzoi in it. That seems to be one of the most common breeds tests like this choose as a likely ancestor. lol.
Comment by Anne T — December 18, 2009 @ 3:41 pm
My guess is Shiba/Chihuahua
Whatever she is, she’s very cute!
Comment by Blue — December 18, 2009 @ 6:41 pm
acd/chi
Comment by Nancy Freedman-Smith — December 18, 2009 @ 7:51 pm
I would like the rules clarified, Dr. Marty Becker.
How many chances does one get?
If one changes ones mind, which selection counts?
Don’t want to waste your time with questions, but I HAVE to know!:)
Comment by Colorado Transplant — December 19, 2009 @ 8:13 am
I make the rules here. :)
Guess all the times you want. Your LAST, BEST guess will be the one that counts. And if you and someone else tie, there will be a drawing based on the winning guess.
Cool? This isn’t really a real contest: No lawyers involved. It’s just for fun and a signed book!
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 19, 2009 @ 8:29 am
Houlahan and retrieverman, you are 100% correct on this. And score another one for Houlahan on the MDR1 mutation test.
Why is it “holiday fun” to promote an expensive ($75 - $150) ripoff? This is surprising, given petconnection’s outstanding track record of exposing ripoffs. I would have expected a petconnection column exposing this racket by showing the BS results obtained when samples were sent from dogs of known purebred ancestry.
Sorry I’m lacking the joyous holiday spirit about cheating people. But this is one endorsement Dr. Becker should have said no to.
Comment by SusanS — December 19, 2009 @ 10:07 am
It was Terrierman.
Retrieverman decided to play along, because I guess he recognized that we just wanted a reason to give away a book or two.
Geez, if we’d wanted to promote this, we’d have done it months and months ago, when Dr. Becker was on media tour. But no, we really are just trying to have some fun. Sorry to offend.
Play, or don’t. Buy, or don’t. I’m good with it, either way, and I’m sure Dr. Becker is, too.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 19, 2009 @ 10:39 am
Yorkie, Chihauhau and Pomeranian is my final guess for the mixed breed pictured in the beginning of this posting.
I have enjoyed this contest—it has been a lot of fun. I need that right now.
BTW, my cat Sophie passed her physical exam with flying colors yesterday—no dental needed!
Vet said she was a very healthy cat.
Because he gave Sophie a shot (which I really didn’t want her to have), I needled him and told him I give her human food. By his expression, I knew I did not get his approval.
Comment by Colorado Transplant — December 19, 2009 @ 11:25 am
“But as a veterinarian, the real value for me is knowing about some breed-related health risks. . . . If she is part Collie, then we need to keep her away from oral compounds that contain Ivermectin (common in many parasite and heartworm products).”
Dr. Becker, this implies that the test is so accurate that it can be used to make medical decisions.
Suppose the owner of a dog who looks like a Collie mix takes your medical advice seriously, has her dog’s DNA “tested,” and is reassured that the dog has no Collie ancestry. She doesn’t know about the accurate MDR1 test because you didn’t tell us about it, and she didn’t read the comments. (I assume you weren’t paid to endorse the MDR1 test, so no need to mention it?) She trusts you because you are a veterinarian and the famous Dr. Becker. So she gives her dog ivermectin and her beloved dog—who was a Collie mix after all—dies.
What do we say then? Oh, come on, it’s just a bit of holiday cheer? Lighten up? Ha ha ha and fa la la?
Acting as a shill for a defective product, to the extent of recommending it as the basis for medical decisions, is—to be quite blunt about it—gross malpractice. Physicians have done this sort of disgusting hawking of products for a long time, causing incalculable harm to their patients.
Being a physician or a veterinarian carries with it very high ethical responsibilities. These responsibilities can be inconvenient at times, as they obligate you to turn down some rather lucrative deals.
Somehow I expected better of you, Dr. Becker. Is the money really worth it?
Comment by SusanS — December 19, 2009 @ 11:50 am
Dr. Becker has asked the companies if they want to come in and address your concerns. He is personally satisfied with the science behind the product he endorsed.
We’ll keep you posted.
Until then, seriously … gross malpractice?
You’ve had your say and made your point, and now you can take your nastiness somewhere else. My patience has run out.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 19, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
She trusts you because you are a veterinarian and the famous Dr. Becker. So she gives her dog ivermectin and her beloved dog—who was a Collie mix after all—dies.
Personally, I think the MDR test is of great value, and see the DNA breed tests as more useful for fun than anything else. I’d have loved to have tested my chow mix, Colleen, if the tests had been around during her lifetime.
But this particular line of reasoning is flawed IMO.
It is the dog’s veterinarian who needs to determine if the dog might be at risk of breed-related drug sensitivities when he or she prescribes that drug for his or her patient.
Failing to do so might indeed be malpractice, even though it happens all the time, that vets prescribe ivermectin or any of the dozens of drugs dogs with the MDR gene cannot tolerate without testing them for it, or mentioning it to the owner, or even thinking of it.
Comment by Christie Keith — December 19, 2009 @ 12:16 pm
Geez—ain’t it hard to have a lot of fun!
Comment by Colorado Transplant — December 19, 2009 @ 12:46 pm
You know, looking at the Mars Corporation “wisdom panel website,” questions arise —
Where the hell did they get their phylogenetic tree? The ICR? (Motto: Biblical. Accurate. Certain.) Given their claimed sample size, they should be able to publish a bang-up phylogenetic tree of modern dog breeds. Where is it?
What minimum-wage desk ape typed up their “breed histories?”
I did not know that dogs all had eight grandparents. I feel cheated with my measly four. How does this work?
In what PR weasel evil mirror universe is this question:
Where did you get the dogs for your test development and scientific studies?
Answered by this response:
The development of Wisdom Panel™ Insights Mixed-breed Analysis test included the analysis of more than 19 million DNA markers across more than 13,000 dogs. As a result, Wisdom Panel Insights will be able to detect 170+ breeds that may be present in a mixed-breed dog, which represents more than 99 percent of dogs registered by the American Kennel Club (AKC). Wisdom Panel Insights test is based on the most sophisticated and comprehensive genetic database for dogs available.
How fatuous would one have to be to fall for this:
At Mars Veterinary, we pride ourselves on offering the most reliable and accurate genetic tests on the market. Wisdom Panel Insights provides the highest level of accuracy possible for a cheek swab DNA test, but that accuracy varies depending on the quality of DNA collected by an owner from their dog. Because of these high levels of variations in DNA quality that arrive to our testing facilities, we are unable to provide a definitive accuracy percentage at this time.
Or this:
The relationship between the markers and breeds is unfortunately proprietary information as it forms the basis of the test and is therefore not publicized.
Or be mollified by this:
The good news is that Mars Veterinary understands the role all of these factors play in determining a mixed-breed dog’s genetic ancestry and has confidence that Wisdom Panel™ Insights outperforms all other products on the market.
I’m glad that the good news is that you say you have confidence in the $80 computer printout you are hawking. I totally trust a giant pet food corporation to have my best interests front and center, because they are so damned reliable and would never misrepresent their product in any way.
I keep getting this Miss Cleo/John Edwards vibe — you know, “for entertainment purposes only.” But like our psychic friends, this pseudoscientific corporate ripoff can cause harm to a misinformed “believer.” At the very least, harm to the believer’s wallet.
If this Mars Corporation product was an $18 bag of Old Roy rather than an $80 computer printout, you guys would not be cutting them one millimeter of slack on this obvious BS.
Now, if I believed that the guys at Mars were going to run this particular sample “honestly” — i.e. without doing some extra checking to make sure their reported results matched phenotype — I’d guess that the test will show that this little dog has some mastiff and borzoi in her.
My opinion? She’s a little yellow dog. My advice? Love her, train her, and get her off the psych drugs.
Comment by H. Houlahan — December 19, 2009 @ 12:47 pm
Gina, you will never post this, but did you know that it’s illegal in many places for physicians to take more than insignificant amounts of money from companies that manufacture drugs or other medical products (except for research, and that’s another problem)? Taking this kind of money is rightly viewed as inherently corrupting and harmful to patients—and, yes, as gross malpractice. Here are a few details from the NYT:
“In Minnesota, the state’s unique payment disclosure and gift limit law has led a growing number of academic and private medical centers to impose severe restrictions on industry marketing practices. Park Nicollet Health Services, one of the largest health systems in the state, banned all industry gifts and nearly all free drug samples and has made public all doctor consulting payments. . . .
A common problem in illegal drug and device marketing cases is doctors’ willingness to delude themselves into thinking that cash, lucrative trips and other kickbacks do not affect them, said Mr. Morris, the chief counsel.
“Somehow physicians think they’re different from the rest of us,” Mr. Morris said. “But money works on them just like everybody else.”
Mr. Sullivan, the United States attorney, said officials hoped to send a strong message to doctors. “I have been shocked at what appears to be willful blindness by folks in the physician community to the criminal conduct that corrupts the patient-physician relationship,” he said.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03......html?_r=1
Is this nastiness on the part of legislators? Or realism?
Do you really think veterinarians should be held to a lower ethical standard than physicians here?
Perhaps you could at least pass this on to Dr. Becker. I suspect that he (and you) will figure this stuff out eventually. You both have the ethical wherewithal to do so. But it takes a while when doing the right thing pinches your wallet. (That’s why taking this kind of money is corrupting.)
I expected better from you as well.
As a dog trainer, I sometimes recommend electronic fences (when nothing is the only other option or when a dog has learned to dig under an existing fence). I routinely recommend a particular company because they have an excellent product and good service. Whenever I send them a client, the company sends me a check for $50. I write “VOID” on every one of these checks and send them back to the company. Why? Because my clients (and I) should always be sure that my judgment is based solely on what is best for their dogs. I’m no saint, but it seems pretty straightforward to me.
Comment by SusanS — December 19, 2009 @ 1:01 pm
My problem is not with you (or anyone) disagreeing. Civil, intelligent discussion is always welcome here. Keep it civil, and we’re good.
I agree with the conflict of interest problems in medicine, all kinds. That’s why Dr. Becker was explicit in his statement that he has represented one of these products as a spokesperson. Such disclosure allows people to make up their own minds in weighing their opinion of any given product or service.
As for ethics … well, Dr. Becker stood by the bloggers here during the pet-food recall, despite a lot of pressure to do otherwise — and the potential for loss of income. As long as our reporting was well-documented, he was good with it.
Again, we have asked the companies to come in, and I hope they do.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 19, 2009 @ 1:17 pm
“As for the Mars Test, it is pure crap as has been demonstrated again and again. In fact, as I have noted, it so unreliable that there is a legal notice that comes with the product which says the test cannot tell the breed if the breed is actully known! …
PBurns
http://www.terrierman.com
Comment by PBurns — December 18, 2009 @ 9:45 am”
It is quite a joke for someone who has blogged that any dog anyone thinks is a pit bull IS a pit bull (and should be subject to restrictive laws) to have the nerve to comment on the crappiness of someone else’s notions of breed. Especially one who also denies that a purebred breed called the American Pit Bull Terrier even exists and routinely denigrates the very notion of purebred dogs.. except his own of course.
Comment by EmilyS — December 19, 2009 @ 4:43 pm
SusanS, you say
So she gives her dog ivermectin and her beloved dog—who was a Collie mix after all—dies.
What about the veterinarian who examined the collie mix and still prescribed ivermectin? Shouldn’t that vet be held more accountable than an internet article?
Comment by Blue — December 19, 2009 @ 4:53 pm
Emily .. again: Discuss issues, not people. Thanks.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 19, 2009 @ 5:25 pm
“What about the veterinarian who examined the collie mix and still prescribed ivermectin? Shouldn’t that vet be held more accountable than an internet article?”
What if the vet trusted Dr. Becker’s judgment, and assumed that he would never have endorsed the DNA test (and failed to mention the MDR1 test) if it weren’t accurate? Yes, the vet should have done his own research and is responsible as well. But companies pay vets to endorse products because they expect the endorsements to influence other vets to use their products. Many vets are extremely busy and don’t have time to research every new product—so they trust the endorsements.
This is why physicians are not allowed to explicitly act as paid endorsers of medical products (they often get around this with the pretense that they are “consultants”). I see no reason why veterinarians should be held to a lower standard.
Comment by SusanS — December 19, 2009 @ 5:25 pm
Susan, again: See No. 51. Issues, not people. Thanks.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — December 19, 2009 @ 5:27 pm
Hmm - guessing breeds is always fun. I think I have to join the Shiba Inu / Chihuahua camp. She’s a cutie!
Comment by Kate — December 20, 2009 @ 8:51 am
Has anyone hereabouts seen the Pekingese/Lhasa Apso blend — the original Pekasso?
They look like this: http://www.johnsumner.com/images/picassosdog.jpg
No unreliable DNA test required.
Comment by the dogfather — December 20, 2009 @ 10:22 am
Has anyone hereabouts seen the Pekingese/Lhasa Apso blend — the original Pekasso?
Comment by the dogfather — December 20, 2009 @ 10:22 am
There must be a just punishment for stuff like this, but I don’t know what it is. Maybe just sic the Pun Police on you?
elaine
Comment by elaine — December 20, 2009 @ 11:46 am
Definately Pomeranian based on the face and skull shape. My other first instinct was Corgi, and then maybe to round it all out Shiba
Comment by Anne — December 20, 2009 @ 1:00 pm