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	<title>Comments on: Pets living longer, better</title>
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	<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/</link>
	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kiolva</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476410</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiolva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 04:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My Siberian cat lived almost 18 years. Many people says that it&#039;s very long for cats. But he never looked like old cat in his last years. On the contrary he was very energetic and joyful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Siberian cat lived almost 18 years. Many people says that it&#8217;s very long for cats. But he never looked like old cat in his last years. On the contrary he was very energetic and joyful</p>
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		<title>By: LauraS</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476266</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476266</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But sample sizes in the tens, are just laughable.&lt;/i&gt;

That simply isn&#039;t true, and therein lies the source of your misunderstanding.

The required sample size depends on what question is being asked, and on the nature of the data.

For example, let&#039;s consider a hypothetical breed, the Andean Shepherd Hound (ASH).  
40 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 7.0 years.
15 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.

Now lets consider another hypothetical breed, the Tundra Hairless (TH).
40 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 9.5 years.
15 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.

What sample sizes for ASH and TH populations are required to determine these trends?

The required sample sizes for the ASH populations will be smaller than for the TH populations, because the longevity change for the ASH was larger than for the TH.  

Beyond that, the plus/minus longevity spread in each population also affects required sample sizes. 

I once did a statistical comparison of two dog breed populations, and it only required sample sizes of 30 each to reach the commonly accepted p less than 0.05 threshold for statistical significance.  Increasing sample sizes beyond 30 each reduced the p value as expected, but it did not change the calculated difference between the two populations to any meaningful extent.  This happened despite the fact that the calculated difference between these two breed populations was relatively small.

There is no simple answer to what the required sample size is for a dog breed longevity study.  To use your phrase, it isn&#039;t &quot;statistically valid&quot; to dismiss a study that sampled &quot;tens&quot; rather than hundreds or thousands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But sample sizes in the tens, are just laughable.</i></p>
<p>That simply isn&#8217;t true, and therein lies the source of your misunderstanding.</p>
<p>The required sample size depends on what question is being asked, and on the nature of the data.</p>
<p>For example, let&#8217;s consider a hypothetical breed, the Andean Shepherd Hound (ASH).<br />
40 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 7.0 years.<br />
15 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.</p>
<p>Now lets consider another hypothetical breed, the Tundra Hairless (TH).<br />
40 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 9.5 years.<br />
15 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.</p>
<p>What sample sizes for ASH and TH populations are required to determine these trends?</p>
<p>The required sample sizes for the ASH populations will be smaller than for the TH populations, because the longevity change for the ASH was larger than for the TH.  </p>
<p>Beyond that, the plus/minus longevity spread in each population also affects required sample sizes. </p>
<p>I once did a statistical comparison of two dog breed populations, and it only required sample sizes of 30 each to reach the commonly accepted p less than 0.05 threshold for statistical significance.  Increasing sample sizes beyond 30 each reduced the p value as expected, but it did not change the calculated difference between the two populations to any meaningful extent.  This happened despite the fact that the calculated difference between these two breed populations was relatively small.</p>
<p>There is no simple answer to what the required sample size is for a dog breed longevity study.  To use your phrase, it isn&#8217;t &#8220;statistically valid&#8221; to dismiss a study that sampled &#8220;tens&#8221; rather than hundreds or thousands.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: LauraS</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476265</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476265</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But sample sizes in the tens, are just laughable.&lt;/i&gt;

That simply isn&#039;t true, and therein lies the source of your misunderstanding.

The required sample size depends on what question is being asked and on the nature of the data.

For example, let&#039;s consider a hypothetical breed, the Andean Shepherd Hound (ASH).  
40 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 7.0 years.
15 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.

Now lets consider another hypothetical breed, the Tundra Hairless (TH).
40 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 9.5 years.
15 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.

What sample sizes for ASH and TH populations are required to determine these trends?

The required sample sizes for the ASH populations will be smaller than for the TH populations, because the longevity change for the ASH was larger than for the TH.  

Beyond that, the +/- longevity spread in each population also affects required sample sizes. 

I once did a statistical comparison of two dog breed populations, and it only required sample sizes of 30 each to reach the commonly accepted p&lt;0.05 threshold for statistical significance.  Increasing sample sizes beyond 30 each reduced the p value as expected, but it did not change the calculated difference between the two populations to any meaningful extent.  This happened despite the fact that the calculated difference between these two breed populations was relatively small.

There is no simple answer to what the required sample size is for a dog breed longevity study.  To use your phrase, it isn&#039;t &quot;statistically valid&quot; to dismiss a study that sampled &quot;tens&quot; rather than hundreds or thousands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But sample sizes in the tens, are just laughable.</i></p>
<p>That simply isn&#8217;t true, and therein lies the source of your misunderstanding.</p>
<p>The required sample size depends on what question is being asked and on the nature of the data.</p>
<p>For example, let&#8217;s consider a hypothetical breed, the Andean Shepherd Hound (ASH).<br />
40 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 7.0 years.<br />
15 years ago, ASH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.</p>
<p>Now lets consider another hypothetical breed, the Tundra Hairless (TH).<br />
40 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 9.5 years.<br />
15 years ago, TH had a median longevity of 10.0 years.</p>
<p>What sample sizes for ASH and TH populations are required to determine these trends?</p>
<p>The required sample sizes for the ASH populations will be smaller than for the TH populations, because the longevity change for the ASH was larger than for the TH.  </p>
<p>Beyond that, the +/- longevity spread in each population also affects required sample sizes. </p>
<p>I once did a statistical comparison of two dog breed populations, and it only required sample sizes of 30 each to reach the commonly accepted p&lt;0.05 threshold for statistical significance.  Increasing sample sizes beyond 30 each reduced the p value as expected, but it did not change the calculated difference between the two populations to any meaningful extent.  This happened despite the fact that the calculated difference between these two breed populations was relatively small.</p>
<p>There is no simple answer to what the required sample size is for a dog breed longevity study.  To use your phrase, it isn&#039;t &quot;statistically valid&quot; to dismiss a study that sampled &quot;tens&quot; rather than hundreds or thousands.</p>
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		<title>By: Lis</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476264</link>
		<dc:creator>Lis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476264</guid>
		<description>Indeed. You can have study with a sample size in the tens of thousands, and still have no statistical validity or usefulness.

But sample sizes in the tens, are just laughable.

And a sample size of one, is just trying to make it look like you have more results than you really have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed. You can have study with a sample size in the tens of thousands, and still have no statistical validity or usefulness.</p>
<p>But sample sizes in the tens, are just laughable.</p>
<p>And a sample size of one, is just trying to make it look like you have more results than you really have.</p>
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		<title>By: LauraS</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476263</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 20:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476263</guid>
		<description>Lis, you do not know what the sample size is for &quot;meaningful information&quot; to be derived from these kind of studies.  You use phrases like &quot;statistical lack of validity&quot; without even reading the studies or knowing what that means. &quot;Three digits&quot; is not some magic threshold in order to be &quot;meaningful&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lis, you do not know what the sample size is for &#8220;meaningful information&#8221; to be derived from these kind of studies.  You use phrases like &#8220;statistical lack of validity&#8221; without even reading the studies or knowing what that means. &#8220;Three digits&#8221; is not some magic threshold in order to be &#8220;meaningful&#8221;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lis</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476258</link>
		<dc:creator>Lis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476258</guid>
		<description>No, Laura, not just two studies. It&#039;s just that the Chinese Crested is the breed nearest and dearest to my heart, and The OTHER Pat had specific information about the incredibly bad design of the Papillon study.

Other breeds for which the &quot;studies&quot; had sample sizes under three digits. (I have included a few where two studies combined may be over three digits, but none where any single study was over three digits, or where there were three or more studies)

Leonberger                                          47 dogs (and another with 78 dogs)

Russian Black Terrier                           4 dogs

Hovawart                                              19 dogs

Chinese Crested                                   14 dogs

French bulldog                                       71 dogs

Schipperke                                            36 dogs

Tibetan Terrier                                       95 dogs (an another with 7 dogs)

Affenpinscher                                        21 dogs

Brussels Griffon                                     71 dogs

English Toy Spaniel                                 22 dogs

Havanese                                                3 dogs

Japanese Chin                                         38 dogs

Lowchen                                                 9 dogs

Maltese                                                     42 dogs

Pomeranian                                               29 dogs

Silky Terrier                                                3 dogs

Toy Manchester Terrier                             19 dogs

Toy Poodle                                                 20 dogs (and another with 11 dogs)

Yorkshire Terrier                                        63 dogs

Basenji                                                        46 dogs

Pharaoh Hound                                            15 dogs

Basset Fauve de Bretagne                          15 dogs

Basset Griffon Vendeens (all sizes)            76 dogs (with a note saying see Petit and Grand)

Grand Bleu de Gacogne                                6 dogs

Hamiltonstovare                                             6 dogs

Miniature Dachshund (all coat types)            21 dogs ( with note saying See also Dachshunds (all varieties))

Otterhound                                                     41 dogs

Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen                        &quot;N probably 45&quot;

Smooth-haired Dachshund                             75 dogs  (See also Dachshunds (all varieties))

Wire-haired Dachshund                                  46 dogs (See also Dachshunds (all varieties))

Borzoi                                                               87 dogs

Rhodesian Ridgeback                                       10 dogs

Sloughi                                                              1 dog

Anatolian Shepherd Dog                                   23 dogs

Estrela Mountain Dog                                         3 dogs

Giant Schnauzer                                                39 dogs

Komondor                                                           10 dogs

Maremma Sheepdog                                           19 dogs

Australian Cattle Dog                                          11 dogs

Australian Shepherd Dog                                    22 dogs

Briard                                                                  71 dogs

Canaan Dog                                                         2 dogs

Cardigan Welsh Corgi                                          53 dogs

Polish Lowland Sheepdog                                   11 dogs (and another with 19 dogs)

Rough Collie                                                          51 dogs

Swedish Vallhund                                                 7 dogs

Welsh Corgis (both breeds combined)                13 dogs  (See also Cardigan Welsh Corgi and Pembroke Welsh Corgi)

Bullmastiff                                                             96 dogs (and another with 7 dogs)

Dogue de Bordeaux                                               5 dogs

Greater Swiss Mountain Dog                                71 dogs

Mastiff                                                                   94 dogs

Tibetan Mastiff                                                       10 dogs

Chow Chow                                                           7 dogs (and another with 31 dogs)

Finnish Lapphund                                                    5 dogs

Finnish Spitz                                                            42 dogs

German Spitzes (all varieties)                                43 dogs

Norwegian Buhund                                                  17 dogs

Shiba Inu                                                                   3 dogs

Greenland Dog                                                          2 dogs

Braco Italiano                                                            1 dog

German Long-haired Pointer                                     2 dogs

German Wire-haired Pointer                                     41 dogs

Italian Spinone                                                           47 dogs

Large Munsterlander                                                69 dogs

Small Munsterlander                                                 31 dogs

Wire-haired Vizsla                                                    15 dogs

Chesapeake Bay Retriever                                        45 dogs

Curly-coated Retriever                                              40 dogs

Portuguese Water Dog                                               6 dogs

Field Spaniel                                                               68 dogs (and another with 71 dogs)

Irish Water Spaniel                                                     95 dogs

Kooikerhondje                                                              7 dogs

Sussex Spaniel                                                           42 dogs

Miniature Bull Terrier                                                    20 dogs (and another with 53 dogs)

Bedlington Terrier                                                        48 dogs (another with 6 dogs)

Cesky Terrier                                                               9 dogs

Dandie Dinmont Terrier                                                62 dogs

Fox Terriers (all varieties)                                            44 dogs

German Pinscher                                                         24 dogs

Glen of Imaal Terrier                                                     6 dogs

Russell Terriers (all varieties)                                      75 dogs  (See also Jack Russell Terrier and Parson Russell Terrier)

Sealyham Terrier                                                           12 dogs

Skye Terrier                                                                  37 dogs

The sad truth is you can&#039;t extract any meaningful information from these tiny studies. Such small samples could be distorting the results &lt;i&gt;in either direction&lt;/i&gt;. They, literally, don&#039;t tell us anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Laura, not just two studies. It&#8217;s just that the Chinese Crested is the breed nearest and dearest to my heart, and The OTHER Pat had specific information about the incredibly bad design of the Papillon study.</p>
<p>Other breeds for which the &#8220;studies&#8221; had sample sizes under three digits. (I have included a few where two studies combined may be over three digits, but none where any single study was over three digits, or where there were three or more studies)</p>
<p>Leonberger                                          47 dogs (and another with 78 dogs)</p>
<p>Russian Black Terrier                           4 dogs</p>
<p>Hovawart                                              19 dogs</p>
<p>Chinese Crested                                   14 dogs</p>
<p>French bulldog                                       71 dogs</p>
<p>Schipperke                                            36 dogs</p>
<p>Tibetan Terrier                                       95 dogs (an another with 7 dogs)</p>
<p>Affenpinscher                                        21 dogs</p>
<p>Brussels Griffon                                     71 dogs</p>
<p>English Toy Spaniel                                 22 dogs</p>
<p>Havanese                                                3 dogs</p>
<p>Japanese Chin                                         38 dogs</p>
<p>Lowchen                                                 9 dogs</p>
<p>Maltese                                                     42 dogs</p>
<p>Pomeranian                                               29 dogs</p>
<p>Silky Terrier                                                3 dogs</p>
<p>Toy Manchester Terrier                             19 dogs</p>
<p>Toy Poodle                                                 20 dogs (and another with 11 dogs)</p>
<p>Yorkshire Terrier                                        63 dogs</p>
<p>Basenji                                                        46 dogs</p>
<p>Pharaoh Hound                                            15 dogs</p>
<p>Basset Fauve de Bretagne                          15 dogs</p>
<p>Basset Griffon Vendeens (all sizes)            76 dogs (with a note saying see Petit and Grand)</p>
<p>Grand Bleu de Gacogne                                6 dogs</p>
<p>Hamiltonstovare                                             6 dogs</p>
<p>Miniature Dachshund (all coat types)            21 dogs ( with note saying See also Dachshunds (all varieties))</p>
<p>Otterhound                                                     41 dogs</p>
<p>Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen                        &#8220;N probably 45&#8221;</p>
<p>Smooth-haired Dachshund                             75 dogs  (See also Dachshunds (all varieties))</p>
<p>Wire-haired Dachshund                                  46 dogs (See also Dachshunds (all varieties))</p>
<p>Borzoi                                                               87 dogs</p>
<p>Rhodesian Ridgeback                                       10 dogs</p>
<p>Sloughi                                                              1 dog</p>
<p>Anatolian Shepherd Dog                                   23 dogs</p>
<p>Estrela Mountain Dog                                         3 dogs</p>
<p>Giant Schnauzer                                                39 dogs</p>
<p>Komondor                                                           10 dogs</p>
<p>Maremma Sheepdog                                           19 dogs</p>
<p>Australian Cattle Dog                                          11 dogs</p>
<p>Australian Shepherd Dog                                    22 dogs</p>
<p>Briard                                                                  71 dogs</p>
<p>Canaan Dog                                                         2 dogs</p>
<p>Cardigan Welsh Corgi                                          53 dogs</p>
<p>Polish Lowland Sheepdog                                   11 dogs (and another with 19 dogs)</p>
<p>Rough Collie                                                          51 dogs</p>
<p>Swedish Vallhund                                                 7 dogs</p>
<p>Welsh Corgis (both breeds combined)                13 dogs  (See also Cardigan Welsh Corgi and Pembroke Welsh Corgi)</p>
<p>Bullmastiff                                                             96 dogs (and another with 7 dogs)</p>
<p>Dogue de Bordeaux                                               5 dogs</p>
<p>Greater Swiss Mountain Dog                                71 dogs</p>
<p>Mastiff                                                                   94 dogs</p>
<p>Tibetan Mastiff                                                       10 dogs</p>
<p>Chow Chow                                                           7 dogs (and another with 31 dogs)</p>
<p>Finnish Lapphund                                                    5 dogs</p>
<p>Finnish Spitz                                                            42 dogs</p>
<p>German Spitzes (all varieties)                                43 dogs</p>
<p>Norwegian Buhund                                                  17 dogs</p>
<p>Shiba Inu                                                                   3 dogs</p>
<p>Greenland Dog                                                          2 dogs</p>
<p>Braco Italiano                                                            1 dog</p>
<p>German Long-haired Pointer                                     2 dogs</p>
<p>German Wire-haired Pointer                                     41 dogs</p>
<p>Italian Spinone                                                           47 dogs</p>
<p>Large Munsterlander                                                69 dogs</p>
<p>Small Munsterlander                                                 31 dogs</p>
<p>Wire-haired Vizsla                                                    15 dogs</p>
<p>Chesapeake Bay Retriever                                        45 dogs</p>
<p>Curly-coated Retriever                                              40 dogs</p>
<p>Portuguese Water Dog                                               6 dogs</p>
<p>Field Spaniel                                                               68 dogs (and another with 71 dogs)</p>
<p>Irish Water Spaniel                                                     95 dogs</p>
<p>Kooikerhondje                                                              7 dogs</p>
<p>Sussex Spaniel                                                           42 dogs</p>
<p>Miniature Bull Terrier                                                    20 dogs (and another with 53 dogs)</p>
<p>Bedlington Terrier                                                        48 dogs (another with 6 dogs)</p>
<p>Cesky Terrier                                                               9 dogs</p>
<p>Dandie Dinmont Terrier                                                62 dogs</p>
<p>Fox Terriers (all varieties)                                            44 dogs</p>
<p>German Pinscher                                                         24 dogs</p>
<p>Glen of Imaal Terrier                                                     6 dogs</p>
<p>Russell Terriers (all varieties)                                      75 dogs  (See also Jack Russell Terrier and Parson Russell Terrier)</p>
<p>Sealyham Terrier                                                           12 dogs</p>
<p>Skye Terrier                                                                  37 dogs</p>
<p>The sad truth is you can&#8217;t extract any meaningful information from these tiny studies. Such small samples could be distorting the results <i>in either direction</i>. They, literally, don&#8217;t tell us anything.</p>
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		<title>By: LauraS</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476249</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476249</guid>
		<description>On the contrary, Lis, you do have conclusions, which you stated above.  You find 2 studies lacking, so by some kind of bizarre guilt by association you diss most of the rest of the studies.  Without evidence you dismiss any study not done by a vet school as being done by the &quot;average person has no idea how to design a survey&quot; and therefore the study is &quot;utter crap&quot;.  

You know next to nothing about the people who did most of the studies.  It might come as a surprise to you what kind of people serve on breed health committees.  It&#039;s not unusual for these committees to include people with medical or scientific backgrounds.  People like Denise Wall, PhD, who has served on her breed&#039;s health committee.   

Furthermore, based on the comments you&#039;ve made in this thread it&#039;s obvious that you haven&#039;t bothered to read the studies or very much of the content on Dr. Cassidy&#039;s site.  Yet you feel qualified to attack their work nevertheless.  That&#039;s not how science works.

There is considerable evidence that many breeds have a shorter median or average longevity than one would expect given the typical size of the dogs in those breeds.  

There is evidence that breeds for which longitudinal data are available are not living any longer in recent years than they were in the past.  As Dr. Cassidy said:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Even with consideration of possible methodological problems with some of the studies, the data are very discouraging.  There have been dramatic improvements in veterinary medicine, particularly in treatments of the most common killers of dogs (cancer and heart disease).  If breed health is staying about the same, then breed life spans would be expected to be increasing because of improved veterinary care.  If breed life spans are staying about the same, then improved veterinary care may only be compensating for declining breed health.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the contrary, Lis, you do have conclusions, which you stated above.  You find 2 studies lacking, so by some kind of bizarre guilt by association you diss most of the rest of the studies.  Without evidence you dismiss any study not done by a vet school as being done by the &#8220;average person has no idea how to design a survey&#8221; and therefore the study is &#8220;utter crap&#8221;.  </p>
<p>You know next to nothing about the people who did most of the studies.  It might come as a surprise to you what kind of people serve on breed health committees.  It&#8217;s not unusual for these committees to include people with medical or scientific backgrounds.  People like Denise Wall, PhD, who has served on her breed&#8217;s health committee.   </p>
<p>Furthermore, based on the comments you&#8217;ve made in this thread it&#8217;s obvious that you haven&#8217;t bothered to read the studies or very much of the content on Dr. Cassidy&#8217;s site.  Yet you feel qualified to attack their work nevertheless.  That&#8217;s not how science works.</p>
<p>There is considerable evidence that many breeds have a shorter median or average longevity than one would expect given the typical size of the dogs in those breeds.  </p>
<p>There is evidence that breeds for which longitudinal data are available are not living any longer in recent years than they were in the past.  As Dr. Cassidy said:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Even with consideration of possible methodological problems with some of the studies, the data are very discouraging.  There have been dramatic improvements in veterinary medicine, particularly in treatments of the most common killers of dogs (cancer and heart disease).  If breed health is staying about the same, then breed life spans would be expected to be increasing because of improved veterinary care.  If breed life spans are staying about the same, then improved veterinary care may only be compensating for declining breed health.&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Lis</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476246</link>
		<dc:creator>Lis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476246</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You have no basis for making that sweeping generalization. You are the one in this thread who has been twisting evidence to support “your conclusion”.&lt;/i&gt;

Laura, you are missing the rather central point that I &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t have&lt;/i&gt; &quot;a conclusion.&quot; We really have no idea whether dogs, either as an overall average, or within particular breeds except the few for which there have been genuinely good studies, are living longer lives, shorter lives, or lives of similar length compared to forty or fifty years ago.

And surveys conducted by breed clubs without the collaboration of professionals are, whatever you choose to believe, far more likely than not to be utter crap, because the average person has no idea how to design a survey so that it produces meaningful, useful results.

Finally, the fact that Dr. Cassidy includes (and especially, includes without caveat of any kind) a &#039;study&#039; in which the sample size was fourteen dogs, and includes another &quot;study,&quot; the Papillon breeder survey, with a report that Dr. Cassidy admits was extremely badly written and which someone who attempted to fill out that survey reports was extremely confusing and badly designed, really does undermine the credibility of the rest of the &quot;information.&quot;

If that isn&#039;t clear enough for you: Obvious statistical invalidity and an extremely poorly-written report that ought to have cause a serious person to ask if the study design was any better, were not regarded as reasons for excluding a &#039;study&#039; from the compilation. Therefore, the fact that a study was included, does not mean we should take it seriously or can extrapolate anything at all from it. Inclusion of obvious bad data means that we can&#039;t rely on &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; of the data, except in cases where we can personally look at the actual surveys and their results--and we can&#039;t extrapolate from those to any other breeds than the ones they specifically studied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You have no basis for making that sweeping generalization. You are the one in this thread who has been twisting evidence to support “your conclusion”.</i></p>
<p>Laura, you are missing the rather central point that I <i>don&#8217;t have</i> &#8220;a conclusion.&#8221; We really have no idea whether dogs, either as an overall average, or within particular breeds except the few for which there have been genuinely good studies, are living longer lives, shorter lives, or lives of similar length compared to forty or fifty years ago.</p>
<p>And surveys conducted by breed clubs without the collaboration of professionals are, whatever you choose to believe, far more likely than not to be utter crap, because the average person has no idea how to design a survey so that it produces meaningful, useful results.</p>
<p>Finally, the fact that Dr. Cassidy includes (and especially, includes without caveat of any kind) a &#8216;study&#8217; in which the sample size was fourteen dogs, and includes another &#8220;study,&#8221; the Papillon breeder survey, with a report that Dr. Cassidy admits was extremely badly written and which someone who attempted to fill out that survey reports was extremely confusing and badly designed, really does undermine the credibility of the rest of the &#8220;information.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that isn&#8217;t clear enough for you: Obvious statistical invalidity and an extremely poorly-written report that ought to have cause a serious person to ask if the study design was any better, were not regarded as reasons for excluding a &#8216;study&#8217; from the compilation. Therefore, the fact that a study was included, does not mean we should take it seriously or can extrapolate anything at all from it. Inclusion of obvious bad data means that we can&#8217;t rely on <i>any</i> of the data, except in cases where we can personally look at the actual surveys and their results&#8212;and we can&#8217;t extrapolate from those to any other breeds than the ones they specifically studied.</p>
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		<title>By: LauraS</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476244</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476244</guid>
		<description>The study that Dr. Cassidy refers to as the British Owner Survey was also conducted by a professor at a vet school.  This study was published in the refereed scientific journal &quot;The Veterinary Record&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The study that Dr. Cassidy refers to as the British Owner Survey was also conducted by a professor at a vet school.  This study was published in the refereed scientific journal &#8220;The Veterinary Record&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: LauraS</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/09/30/pets-living-longer-better/comment-page-1/#comment-476243</link>
		<dc:creator>LauraS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=9282#comment-476243</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Not by well-intentioned amateurs with no input or guidance from people who actually knew what they were doing.&lt;/i&gt;

You have no basis for making that sweeping generalization.  You are the one in this thread who has been twisting evidence to support &quot;your conclusion&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Not by well-intentioned amateurs with no input or guidance from people who actually knew what they were doing.</i></p>
<p>You have no basis for making that sweeping generalization.  You are the one in this thread who has been twisting evidence to support &#8220;your conclusion&#8221;.</p>
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