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Dogs running loose: A pack is forming before our eyes
By Liz Palika
August 18, 2009
At the same time all of us at Kindred Spirits Dog Training were grieving over the deaths of Tyler and Tyrone – killed by dogs running loose — we have also been watching something happen in our neighborhood.
As an avid observer and trainer of dogs, I’d find what’s happening interesting if it weren’t so frightening.
Vista, Calif., where the Kindred Spirits Dog Training yard is located is semi-rural — formerly very rural. In this area, as in many other rural and formerly rural areas, many dogs are allowed to run loose. Their lifespans tend to be short as coyotes are common and the vehicle traffic is increasing daily. We’ve even had mountain lion sightings.
Through Kindred Spirits, we have been trying to teach everyone – including those neighbors who attend our classes – that today it’s no longer safe for dogs to run loose. Unfortunately, we have no idea where these dogs live and who owns them.
It seems that at least so far, our efforts are not working. When we arrive at the training yard before classes now, we often find that dogs have defecated in our parking area, even right in front of our gate. We have watched loose dogs came ambling by, urinating on our gate, fence posts and trees – outside of the training yard fences, of course.
Although these behaviors are annoying, we are seeing something potentially dangerous forming. The dogs are packing up – gathering together – and as they do so they are becoming bolder. Whereas we could easily chase away one dog, when four or five are hanging out together, they are not as easy to chase away.
Last week, six dogs were marking our fence as I drove up. I got out of my van swearing, yelling and waving my arms – not a pretty sight, I’m sure! – while my dogs were threatening dire action while still inside my van. The pack actually paused to look at me – several with hackles up on their back – before casually ambling away. All of my survival instincts told me, “Danger, Liz, danger!” They are getting bolder.
That evening, I stood outside in the parking area with a spray bottle of vinegar (It’s what I had on hand) in case the dogs came too close as people drove up. I did squirt one dog and he left quickly, but luckily the entire pack didn’t come by.
The dogs include an intact male Puggle, an intact male chocolate Labrador Retriever, a Chow Chow with too much coat to see his/her sex, a male Australian Cattle Dog, a male black Lab mix, and a gray mix of unknown sex and breed with a wire coat. The leadership seems to vary between the Puggle and the ACD.
I know a couple of people at Animal Control and will be talking to them soon. I have no idea what their response will be although in the past with strays, we’ve been told to catch the dog first and then call us. Once we caught the dogs and then one of our trainers drove the dogs to the shelter.
I hope we can make something happen before dogs or people are hurt.
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Can you get a video? Maybe if AC saw how bold the behavior is becoming they’d take it more seriously.
Comment by The OTHER Pat — August 18, 2009 @ 6:08 am
We had a similar problem in the Hemet hills area where we lived about 15 years ago. People were turning their dogs loose at night, and a pack of about 9-10 dogs had formed, including “pit mixes”, rottweilers, a dobie and several shepherd mixes. These dogs killed livestock and threatened one neighbor’s toddler, which neighbor then shot and killed several of them. We got little or no help from Animal Control then either. I hate to say it, but if AC won’t act, and these dogs are too aggressive to capture safely, a firearm may be necessary.
Comment by Maria Shanley — August 18, 2009 @ 6:31 am
The three “S”s in agriculture for dogs that harm others:
Shoot,
Shovel, and
Shut Up
(No flames — I’ve been here long enough to be respected for the qualifier)
Comment by Dorene — August 18, 2009 @ 7:38 am
Links to example of exactly what can happen……
http://www.ajc.com/news/killer.....17412.html
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid.....couple.WSB
Comment by TEH — August 18, 2009 @ 7:40 am
Your Animal Control agency tells *you* to catch the strays first and then call them? What kind of control is that????
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. Scary stuff.
Comment by Susan — August 18, 2009 @ 8:36 am
What are they called? “The Puggle and Blue Heeler Gang”?
Comment by retrieverman — August 18, 2009 @ 9:05 am
“The Puggle and the Blue Heeler Gang!” I love it! smile….
Comment by Liz Palika — August 18, 2009 @ 9:21 am
From previous examples I’ve read about, some of the dogs will be easy to catch/trap and these will also be the easiest to “rehabilitate”; probably pets recently lost or abandoned. But there will be one or two longterm ferals that remain elusive, which are/will be the most dangerous.
If you can find a way to catch those that can be easily caught (yes, even without ACO involvement… and how stupid is that! what’s their job description again?.. or is it a jurisdictional thing?) you’ll be doing a huge favor to the dogs and to any potential future victims.
Comment by EmilyS — August 18, 2009 @ 10:20 am
Dorene is right. Up here, a farmer’s right to shoot a dog endangering lifestock is entrenched in law. I’d get a video of the pack’s behaviour and take it to the media; embarass AC for not acting, because this pack sounds like the aggression is accelerating and either an animal (or many) or a human will be killed.
Comment by Social Mange — August 18, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
Bull. Don’t rely on shooting a dog threatening your livestock. Hodding Carter III moved here about 10-12 years ago to fund building a viking ship replica. The first night on his new property, he let his labs Out Loose. They ended up in a neighbor’s barn, scaring the heck out of two cows with new born calves. Don’t know if you have ever witnessed the angst of a cow defending her calf, but I am sure that farmer met pure pandemonium in his barn. He shot first ( the dogs) and asked questions later. Carter took the farmer to court and won on some ‘technicality’; he had $$$$ and clout and the farmer didn’t.Up until then, our laws supported the farmer whose stock was being threatened.
Comment by Anne T — August 18, 2009 @ 6:38 pm
That’s a shame that the court didn’t support the farmer’s right to protect his stock. That’s like those stories you hear about a burglar injuring himself while he’s breaking into a home and then successfully suing the homeowner for damages.
The farmer should have obeyed the other two “S”s in agriculture ;-)
Comment by Barb — August 18, 2009 @ 10:15 pm
Two real life experiences with predation …
First story: A few months ago, one of the young chickens I was raising (I’d just figured out he was a rooster, so he wasn’t going to be able to stay — hens only, by zoning) got into the neighbor’s yard.
On the other side: Two chihuahuas and a Jack Russell. End of rooster.
The neighbor immediately came over to apologize and offered to pay for the rooster. I told her that in fact *I* was sorry, that it wasn’t her fault or her dog’s fault. And then I went to get the dead bird.
Second story: A few years ago I had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Chase (he was rehomed because he and Drew would not get along). We went to visit Christie in her former home on country acreage.
We quickly observed that Miss Kyrie Borzoi seemed to believe from the other side of a strong fence that the little white dog was waaayyyy too interesting when he was running. We didn’t give them any chance to see how it would “work out” — we never took a chance on having them be together. Kyrie’s a lovely, sweet dog and nothing might have happened. But in her genes she is a coursing hound, and we didn’t want to tempt her hard-wired hunting drive.
I think these two stories together define the parameters of the discussion: We must accept that “dogs will be dogs” but we must manage them accordingly.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — August 19, 2009 @ 6:44 am
Sadly related item on Terrierman, the worst-case scenario — a feral pack’s fatal attack on a Georgia couple:
http://terriermandotcom.blogsp.....ouple.html
Liz, you might think about a shotgun.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — August 19, 2009 @ 11:05 am
I haven’t had a weapon since I got out of the Marine Corps but while in the military I was in the military police and was an expert with several different weapons.
Personally, I’m thinking at least a shotgun with rock salt.
Hmmmm…….
Comment by Liz Palika — August 19, 2009 @ 11:28 am
Liz, put hot dried chilies in vinegar to soak, You can speed up the process by grinding the chilies first. A few days to a week.
Strain that through cheese cloth. Home made pepper spray. Go to good garden supply and get a hand pump pressure sprayer, the kind where you pump it up and then it can send a continuous stream for 20-30 feet.
If you can’t wait for the stuff to soak, rubbing alcohol works a treat.
Both of these are for the repulsion of dangerous dogs, not obviously to be used lightly, but they both work.
I’d keep the shotgun handy too, but the sprays are good for breaking up a fight or dealing with the dogs if they are in close proximity to people and other pets.
Comment by JenniferJ — August 19, 2009 @ 5:52 pm