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	<title>Comments on: Zap! The midsummer chicken update</title>
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	<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/</link>
	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts.</description>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-471291</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-471291</guid>
		<description>Update on this: The fencing is up, but it&#039;s not &quot;hot.&quot; Gotta do some training first for chickens and dogs before the fence bites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on this: The fencing is up, but it&#8217;s not &#8220;hot.&#8221; Gotta do some training first for chickens and dogs before the fence bites.</p>
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		<title>By: schnauzer</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-471289</link>
		<dc:creator>schnauzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-471289</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m late on this but I just had to share.

My Standard Schnauzer, Trooper, brought me a wild bunny yesterday.  Laid it gently at my feet. &quot;Mom, I brought dinner!&quot; The bunnies are usually smart enough to stay out of the dog yard, but this one messed up.  The bunny, like your chicken, was a clean kill, and quite good enough for the stew pot.  

I didn&#039;t scold him as I used a box to scoop up his prize.  After all, it&#039;s what his ancestors did so well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m late on this but I just had to share.</p>
<p>My Standard Schnauzer, Trooper, brought me a wild bunny yesterday.  Laid it gently at my feet. &#8220;Mom, I brought dinner!&#8221; The bunnies are usually smart enough to stay out of the dog yard, but this one messed up.  The bunny, like your chicken, was a clean kill, and quite good enough for the stew pot.  </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t scold him as I used a box to scoop up his prize.  After all, it&#8217;s what his ancestors did so well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470853</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470853</guid>
		<description>Gina - i too have the same dream. Some day some land and animals.
Where will you go if not California?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gina - i too have the same dream. Some day some land and animals.<br />
Where will you go if not California?</p>
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		<title>By: H.Houlahan</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470838</link>
		<dc:creator>H.Houlahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470838</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Re-posting H. Houlahan&#039;s post, after some spam-fighting: &lt;/em&gt;

---
So sorry to hear about Charlotte. There certainly are birds who make themselves into favorites. I doubt I could eat Chelsea A. Arthur or Crooked Toe.

FWIW, the dual keys to making my medium to extremely-high prey-drive dogs poultry-reliable has been supervised free-ranging from as early as possible, and giving the dogs a job that involves the poultry.

When I got my first chicks, I made sure the dogs got daily butt-sniff sessions with the chicks in my hand.

As soon as the chicks could run loose, the dogs were unrestrained among them — but with my eyeballs glued to their very intention.

The very presence of a physical barrier or restraint will intensify the desire to get the object on the other side or just out of reach.

I had some small issues with Rosie recreationally mugging the guineas (never the chickens or ducks). Interestingly, this was solved when I started asking her to fetch and drive the flock. If I’d left her to her own devices or failed to correct the muggings, they would have no doubt escalated to murder.

But all four dogs’ main poultry duty is as guardians, and they take this very seriously. They are firm believers in the Lurking Chickenhawk Menace. Unfortunately, they believe that crows and hot air balloons are part of the conspiracy.

The Premiere netting is GREAT. You don’t need to be handy to install it, but you do need to be free of megadoses of Benadryl. Do not ask me how I know.

Figure out where you are going to drive your ground stakes, and get someone brawny to do it for you.

Did you get that cool new charger from NZ they are selling — the one that runs on house current, a 12V, or a solar kit? I like it a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Re-posting H. Houlahan&#8217;s post, after some spam-fighting: </em></p>
<p>&#8212;-<br />
So sorry to hear about Charlotte. There certainly are birds who make themselves into favorites. I doubt I could eat Chelsea A. Arthur or Crooked Toe.</p>
<p>FWIW, the dual keys to making my medium to extremely-high prey-drive dogs poultry-reliable has been supervised free-ranging from as early as possible, and giving the dogs a job that involves the poultry.</p>
<p>When I got my first chicks, I made sure the dogs got daily butt-sniff sessions with the chicks in my hand.</p>
<p>As soon as the chicks could run loose, the dogs were unrestrained among them — but with my eyeballs glued to their very intention.</p>
<p>The very presence of a physical barrier or restraint will intensify the desire to get the object on the other side or just out of reach.</p>
<p>I had some small issues with Rosie recreationally mugging the guineas (never the chickens or ducks). Interestingly, this was solved when I started asking her to fetch and drive the flock. If I’d left her to her own devices or failed to correct the muggings, they would have no doubt escalated to murder.</p>
<p>But all four dogs’ main poultry duty is as guardians, and they take this very seriously. They are firm believers in the Lurking Chickenhawk Menace. Unfortunately, they believe that crows and hot air balloons are part of the conspiracy.</p>
<p>The Premiere netting is GREAT. You don’t need to be handy to install it, but you do need to be free of megadoses of Benadryl. Do not ask me how I know.</p>
<p>Figure out where you are going to drive your ground stakes, and get someone brawny to do it for you.</p>
<p>Did you get that cool new charger from NZ they are selling — the one that runs on house current, a 12V, or a solar kit? I like it a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: A.C.</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470805</link>
		<dc:creator>A.C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 00:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470805</guid>
		<description>Wow, Gina, I can&#039;t imagine how you felt when you saw what happened to Charlotte. Although the incident was/is intellectually understandable, it must still have been shocking. I am sorry.

Hope the fence works well and brings harmony to all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Gina, I can&#8217;t imagine how you felt when you saw what happened to Charlotte. Although the incident was/is intellectually understandable, it must still have been shocking. I am sorry.</p>
<p>Hope the fence works well and brings harmony to all.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470804</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 23:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470804</guid>
		<description>Interesting about the pheasant-chicken connection ... yes, she has had pheasants. 

I&#039;m really liking the fence idea now. Too bad it&#039;s too hot outside to take it out of the box and set it up. (But the chickens aren&#039;t putting any effort to get around in this heat, either, so they&#039;re safe for now.) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting about the pheasant-chicken connection &#8230; yes, she has had pheasants. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really liking the fence idea now. Too bad it&#8217;s too hot outside to take it out of the box and set it up. (But the chickens aren&#8217;t putting any effort to get around in this heat, either, so they&#8217;re safe for now.)</p>
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		<title>By: retrieverman</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470803</link>
		<dc:creator>retrieverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 22:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470803</guid>
		<description>See, retrievers can learn to kill without losing their useful motor patterns! My first golden killed my pet Muscovy duck. So? If I didn&#039;t want her killed, I wouldn&#039;t have let her roam near a dog with a big dose of bird dog instincts and drives.

I don&#039;t know if you use your dogs on pheasants, but many dogs can&#039;t tell the difference. After all, chickens and pheasants are so closely related that they hybridize and produce mule birds. She just thought she was doing you a favor. Normally, if she sees a bird like that, she knows she must bring it to you in her mouth.

Hybrids: 

http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-birds.htm

Currently, raccoons are a big menace to anyone who keeps poultry around here. A friend had his whole flock killed by raccoons that pulled their heads through the chicken wire and then bit them off. Imagine coming to feed the chooks in the morning, only to find they are hanging headless along the chicken wire.

I live where waterfowl are not common, and if a retriever exists, it&#039;s going to be used for grouse and maybe pheasant. And those dogs can&#039;t be trusted around chickens. We have an old family story that took place in the mid 50&#039;s about some German shorthairs that were brought to work the grouse coverts in the high mountains. The dogs were let loose at a farm house, where the farmer had always let my grandpa and his friends shoot birds. Within seconds of leaving their kennels, the Kurzhaar went on point. They had scented the farmer&#039;s chickens.

But unlike grouse or pheasant, they didn&#039;t run for cover. This sorely vexed the Kurzhaar. They held the point anyway. That is, until someone, perhaps filled with touch of caprice, said the words &quot;Put &#039;em up!&quot; The dogs dived, but instead of flushing the chickens, they caught and killed four of them.

Thinking they were going to have to pay for the farmer&#039;s chickens, they really didn&#039;t have such a good hunting trip. Their problems were further exacerbated when they the dogs ranged out too much for grouse hunting, and they were put back in their &quot;dog box.&quot;

The men took a collection. They knew they were going to have to pay for those dead chickens.

But when they returned to the farmer&#039;s house that evening, he didn&#039;t seem the least bit upset. He didn&#039;t mention the birds at all. He just asked how the hunting was.

And then he asked, &quot;Would you boys mind staying for some chicken dinner?&quot;

You see, that old farmer was a practical sort and good-hearted fellow to boot. He liked having people over to shoot birds and talk, and seeing that those dogs had killed those birds, he saw an opportunity to have a some dinner company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, retrievers can learn to kill without losing their useful motor patterns! My first golden killed my pet Muscovy duck. So? If I didn&#8217;t want her killed, I wouldn&#8217;t have let her roam near a dog with a big dose of bird dog instincts and drives.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you use your dogs on pheasants, but many dogs can&#8217;t tell the difference. After all, chickens and pheasants are so closely related that they hybridize and produce mule birds. She just thought she was doing you a favor. Normally, if she sees a bird like that, she knows she must bring it to you in her mouth.</p>
<p>Hybrids: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.messybeast.com/genetics/hybrid-birds.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.messybeast.com/gene.....-birds.htm</a></p>
<p>Currently, raccoons are a big menace to anyone who keeps poultry around here. A friend had his whole flock killed by raccoons that pulled their heads through the chicken wire and then bit them off. Imagine coming to feed the chooks in the morning, only to find they are hanging headless along the chicken wire.</p>
<p>I live where waterfowl are not common, and if a retriever exists, it&#8217;s going to be used for grouse and maybe pheasant. And those dogs can&#8217;t be trusted around chickens. We have an old family story that took place in the mid 50&#8217;s about some German shorthairs that were brought to work the grouse coverts in the high mountains. The dogs were let loose at a farm house, where the farmer had always let my grandpa and his friends shoot birds. Within seconds of leaving their kennels, the Kurzhaar went on point. They had scented the farmer&#8217;s chickens.</p>
<p>But unlike grouse or pheasant, they didn&#8217;t run for cover. This sorely vexed the Kurzhaar. They held the point anyway. That is, until someone, perhaps filled with touch of caprice, said the words &#8220;Put &#8216;em up!&#8221; The dogs dived, but instead of flushing the chickens, they caught and killed four of them.</p>
<p>Thinking they were going to have to pay for the farmer&#8217;s chickens, they really didn&#8217;t have such a good hunting trip. Their problems were further exacerbated when they the dogs ranged out too much for grouse hunting, and they were put back in their &#8220;dog box.&#8221;</p>
<p>The men took a collection. They knew they were going to have to pay for those dead chickens.</p>
<p>But when they returned to the farmer&#8217;s house that evening, he didn&#8217;t seem the least bit upset. He didn&#8217;t mention the birds at all. He just asked how the hunting was.</p>
<p>And then he asked, &#8220;Would you boys mind staying for some chicken dinner?&#8221;</p>
<p>You see, that old farmer was a practical sort and good-hearted fellow to boot. He liked having people over to shoot birds and talk, and seeing that those dogs had killed those birds, he saw an opportunity to have a some dinner company.</p>
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		<title>By: Colorado Transplant</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470800</link>
		<dc:creator>Colorado Transplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470800</guid>
		<description>Gina, are you planning on having goat&#039;s milk along with the chicken eggs for your breakfast someday?  Clara and Ilario probably shouldn&#039;t have the milk, but some of the other members of your brood could, don&#039;t ya think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gina, are you planning on having goat&#8217;s milk along with the chicken eggs for your breakfast someday?  Clara and Ilario probably shouldn&#8217;t have the milk, but some of the other members of your brood could, don&#8217;t ya think?</p>
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		<title>By: Patty Smiley</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470799</link>
		<dc:creator>Patty Smiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470799</guid>
		<description>I have five black retrievers of a certain type  on 6 1/2 acres of land in the Gold Country of the Sierra foothills.  

I also have chickens and guinea fowl.  The chickens have a dedicated coop and yard.  The coop and yard are completely (top and bottom included) enclosed in heavy duty chain link fencing.  This keeps out our greatest preditors....hawks and racoons.  I bring the chickens fresh yard clippings and food leftovers daily.  

The guinea fowl are for rattlesnake protection.  They must roam freely to have an effect.  I admit that the dogs are interested in the guinea activity, especially during mating season when they RUN all over the property doing battle with beaks and wings, but they are remarkably good about leaving a living bird alone.  I would not punish a dog for allowing instincts to kick in but in approximately 25 years of keeping guineas we&#039;ve lost 2 birds to our dogs.

We also have sheep, goats and llamas so I obviously agree with Gina on life-style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have five black retrievers of a certain type  on 6 1/2 acres of land in the Gold Country of the Sierra foothills.  </p>
<p>I also have chickens and guinea fowl.  The chickens have a dedicated coop and yard.  The coop and yard are completely (top and bottom included) enclosed in heavy duty chain link fencing.  This keeps out our greatest preditors&#8230;.hawks and racoons.  I bring the chickens fresh yard clippings and food leftovers daily.  </p>
<p>The guinea fowl are for rattlesnake protection.  They must roam freely to have an effect.  I admit that the dogs are interested in the guinea activity, especially during mating season when they RUN all over the property doing battle with beaks and wings, but they are remarkably good about leaving a living bird alone.  I would not punish a dog for allowing instincts to kick in but in approximately 25 years of keeping guineas we&#8217;ve lost 2 birds to our dogs.</p>
<p>We also have sheep, goats and llamas so I obviously agree with Gina on life-style.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2009/07/26/zap-the-midsummer-chicken-update/comment-page-1/#comment-470797</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/?p=8269#comment-470797</guid>
		<description>Oh ... someone e-mailed me asking what happened to the Red Rover meat chicks. While I still am a firm believer in sustainably and humanely raised and slaughtered livestock, this was not the season to start raising my own meat.

In short order my dad died and I lost three of McKenzie&#039;s puppies at birth (stillborn, birth defect/euthanize, fader). I had had it up to *here* with death, so a couple days after losing the puppies I put the chicks on Craigslist. They went to a rancher, ultimately destined for her freezer instead of mine. 

For now, I&#039;m all about the egg-layers.

***

Also: I wonder sometimes what my mail carrier thinks is going on here. 

I live in surburbia, not 10 miles from the golden dome of the California state Capitol, and I have day-old chicks delivered.  And then that fencing? Return address: Premier Sheep Supplies, Iowa. 

The chicks are legal ... as long as they&#039;re hens. Goats and sheep will have to wait until I&#039;m living somewhere else. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8230; someone e-mailed me asking what happened to the Red Rover meat chicks. While I still am a firm believer in sustainably and humanely raised and slaughtered livestock, this was not the season to start raising my own meat.</p>
<p>In short order my dad died and I lost three of McKenzie&#8217;s puppies at birth (stillborn, birth defect/euthanize, fader). I had had it up to *here* with death, so a couple days after losing the puppies I put the chicks on Craigslist. They went to a rancher, ultimately destined for her freezer instead of mine. </p>
<p>For now, I&#8217;m all about the egg-layers.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>Also: I wonder sometimes what my mail carrier thinks is going on here. </p>
<p>I live in surburbia, not 10 miles from the golden dome of the California state Capitol, and I have day-old chicks delivered.  And then that fencing? Return address: Premier Sheep Supplies, Iowa. </p>
<p>The chicks are legal &#8230; as long as they&#8217;re hens. Goats and sheep will have to wait until I&#8217;m living somewhere else.</p>
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