Zap! The midsummer chicken update
By Gina Spadafori
July 26, 2009
Sometime in the next few days an electrified net will rise on the perimeter of the chicken area, to keep the chickens in, but mostly, to keep the chickens safe.
I toyed with dropping the dough on the netting months ago, when a couple of of the younger chickens disappeared overnight, apparently snapped up by a wandering predator who knew a good meal when he smelled it in my yard.
But what finally made me put the netting on the shopping list was when McKenzie killed Charlotte, the latter being my barred Plymouth rock and one of two chickens who were my absolute favorites as pets. (Agatha, the big Delaware, is the other, and she’s now the flock leader.)
McKenzie has always been a problem where the chickens were concerned. She started out retrieving them, whether they liked it or not. But when she was pregnant and then raising her puppies, the intensity of her interest in them increased. I stopped giving the chickens access to the larger yard when the dogs were in the house, making them stay behind their gate, to their dismay. (The snails and slugs in the main yard, no doubt, held a party when the chickens were locked up. )
But then Charlotte, always the boldest, hopped the fence and landed in front of McKenzie, who snapped her neck with a single sharp shake and then delivered her proudly to hand.
No, I didn’t punish her: I took the dead bird and said nothing. McKenzie is a hunting dog by genes and by training, she’d killed Charlotte without damaging her as a dinner prospect and brought her to me without a ruffled feather. Frankly, the bird could have been cleaned and gone right in the pot. (She didn’t. I know it would have made sense, but I couldn’t do it. I still think I could raise meat birds — although I didn’t end up doing so this year — but a pet chicken for dinner? I can’t. She had a name.)
In the weeks after the puppies were weaned, McKenzie’s intensity where the chickens were concerned waned, but I knew the chickens would never be safe with her around as things were currently arranged — plus, I wanted them to be able to enjoy the larger yard and eat those slugs and snails. Before McKenzie went out I always double-checked that no chickens had slipped out, and the weeks went by without incident. I put off the fence buy, for a while.
But then one of the younger pullets pulled a Charlotte and flew over the fence while McKenzie was out. This time, McKenzie was trailed by her daughter Faith as the older dog proudly brought the dead chicken back to me. (That’s Faith in the picture, hoping I’ll open the gate to the chicken yard so she can “play” with them like mommy does.)
I ordered the netting, from Premier1Supplies. (That’s their picture at the top.) I also ordered a new, easy-clean feeder and waterer, along with a poultry hook for catching a hen who is occasionally determined not to be.
The good news, in addition to the preservation of chicken life, is that I can extend their range. The netting is used by farmers who pasture their chickens; it’s light-weight and movable, so I can give the chickens access to different parts of the yard and also let them visit the neighbor’s acreage behind the house.
The company says it’s easy to set up and move. I generally find that “easy” means “easy for people who are at least moderately handy,” a category into which I don’t generally fall. But I watched the video, and I have the instructions. I’m going to give it a go on my own before I beg someone for help.
McKenzie’s days of chicken-killing will soon, I hope, be over. And Faith’s will never begin.
Very sorry about Charlotte and the young chicken. Thats the main reason I haven’t tried it myself. We tried guinea hens a few years ago and a fox or raccon got through the pen fencing and got them. Between the wildlife and my 3 dogs it would be really iffy.
Comment by Lesliek — July 26, 2009 @ 8:11 am
I am also sorry to hear about your loss but SO happy that you shared this story because many people just don’t think beyond the event.
When I was young our GSD got into our chicken yard (we had separate fenced yards and a coop for them at night) and slaughtered them all.
Predatory instincts play a role in many breeds and by illustrating how you are dealing with this you convey the “rest of the story” about maintaining a peaceable kingdom.
Sometimes people get mad over common sense strategies but it is what so many seem to overlook these days.
Also, I have to say that I wish that I had been in the market for a dog when your puppies were being raised in your home because you put so much love and effort into their head start.
Okay, enough gushing over your good animal mom instincts…have a great day.
Comment by Ark Lady — July 26, 2009 @ 9:14 am
Thanks, Diana, on all counts. As you know, folks make a mistake when they believe animals are “people in fur coats.” They’re not. I live with apex predators and prey animals, and it’s not fair to any of them to expect them to be what they’re not.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 26, 2009 @ 9:34 am
This also illustrates the problem with dangerous dog legislation that includes dogs who attack domestic animals. OF COURSE it is traumatic if a loose dog attacks and/or kills your pet (whether it’s a dog, cat, chicken or whatever) - but that doesn’t mean the dog is dangerous to humans AND the bigger problem is usually that the dog was at large. But owners of dead pets are understandably emotional and if they don’t understand the reality of prey drives then they talk a non-animal savvy legislator into writing some stupid law.
Comment by Barb — July 26, 2009 @ 10:01 am
I also lost one chicken to the neighbor’s dogs — a JRT and two Chihuahuas. The neighbor came over apologetic and ready to be defensive if need be since the bird went over the fence into her yard.
I apologized to HER. Told I was sorry she had to deal with it, and that I would come and retrieve the dead bird.
That bird wasn’t going to meet a good end, no matter what. He had recently revealed himself to be a rooster (sexing at the hatchery can never be perfect) and was getting louder and nastier by the day. No, I never would have chosen such an end, but I can’t say I was that upset at how quickly he met his maker.
With zoning rules and understandably unhappy neighbors, roosters don’t cut it in suburbia. No one wants them and most can’t have them, and so roosters tend to get turned loose in parks (a chickenshit way out, in my view) or given to immigrant families who have no problem with seeing chickens as dinner.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 26, 2009 @ 10:13 am
Hi Gina,
I have been using the Premier fences for several years now for rotational grazing of my sheep and goats. They can work great at keeping one set of critters in and other sets out, if used properly. I haven’t tried it yet for my poultry, but that is on the wish list. They are not hard to put up and take down but they are not kidding when they show you the correct way to roll up the fence for moving, so follow their directions or the fence can get seriously tangled. Also follow their directions about how to get a predator to encounter the fence so they will avoid it in the future. My working border collie Spring has learned that 1) the funny white fence will bite you and 2) if you need to get in with the sheep to move them, you can jump it. Working borders are trained to go over farm fences and through gates, because, when the goats are in the wheat field, you don’t have time to run back up to the gate and let the dog in. So it didn’t surprise me that he figured out that this would work for the funny white fence that bites as well. Of course, a dog with all 4 feet off the ground is not grounded and so the fence doesn’t bite when he is airborne. He only jumps it when I ask him too because I need him on the other side to move some animals, but still, he does know now how to get around the fence should he want to. Let’s hope no coyotes are watching. So, since your dogs are working hunters with a lot of drive and instinct, make sure that they don’t learn what my collie did, that there is a way over the fence if you approach it right. Whatever you do, don’t let some idiot throw something they want to retrieve on the other side of the chicken fence because a dog with a lot of drive can forget about pain and then they will have learned that they can get over the fence. If you want to talk with me about other experience with this, you are welcome to contact me privately.
Janice
PS, you do know that you will have to clip the flight feathers on your chickens to keep them from flying over this fence? Of course, this is not an issue for my ducks and geese but is an extra step for chickens.
Comment by Jan — July 26, 2009 @ 10:21 am
Thanks, Doc!
Charlotte’s flight feathers on one side had been snipped, but the three-foot fence dividing the chicken area from the main yard was low enough to jump up unto and then over.
The pullets’ wings I hadn’t trimmed yet.
The whole chicken experience has been a learning one, to be sure. No matter how much I read, things happen that I didn’t figure on. It’s humbling, to be sure.
But it makes me know I want land! I want goats, chickens, of course, a well-broken, older bomb-proof gelding to ride and a retired pasture pal or two. And the garden to end all gardens.
I’m planning … oh yes, I’m planning. Five years and California is in the rear-view mirror.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 26, 2009 @ 10:33 am
I think electronet is a great idea and an excellent choice for your situation. I had considered getting some for our flock but about half our predators here are airborne and it won’t do much to stop them.
What I don’t want people to take away from this is the idea that isn’t reasonable to expect a dog - even one with lots of prey drive - to be able to learn to leave chickens or other critters alone. My dogs herd sheep, chase cats and regularly kill squirrels, woodchucks, chipmunks, moles and other vermin - but because I introduced the chickens to them in a structured way that included a lot of balanced training - I can safely leave both of my killers alone with the flock. Soon I’ll be teaching my neighbor’s dog (a German Shorthair Pointer) to behave this way too.
How safe are my dogs around poultry? When I see a hawk perched near the chicken yard, I kennel Audie up with the flock. No supervision required and the most recent post on my blog shows the predator-in-chief letting one of my roosters literally pick on him.
I don’t have a problem with anyone who chooses not to do the kind of training it takes to accomplish what we have, but I think that it’s really important that people be aware that it is possible.
Our dogs have enormous potential to learn and adapt. IMO, like people, they are happiest and most fulfilled when they are given lots of opportunities to demonstrate it. While not everyone will choose to broaden their dog’s ability to understand his own prey drive in context (and Gina, I’m really OK with that), it is vitally important - no matter what kind of work you do with your dog - to have high expectations. Anything less is an injustice to your dog.
Higher expectations would have led Cotton’s owners to seek within themselves for a solution to ‘his’ problem instead of running from fad to fad in a search for absolution.
Comment by Janeen — July 26, 2009 @ 11:10 am
I toyed with the idea of getting chickens but I have a terrier. Even if I kept them safe - I’d have to deal with the constant barking every time they ruffled a feather. I figured that after all the work it would take - I’d never get eggs out of such stressed birds.
Comment by cheryl — July 26, 2009 @ 11:20 am
I get ya!
I guess when I look inside myself, and I don’t see someone focused enough/consistent/dedicated enough a trainer to realistically expect that I can teach McKenzie that I WANT her to go all out after a duck in the field, but the chickens, leave alone.
She knows a chicken isn’t duck, and that our yard isn’t the field. The problem isn’t with her ability to learn that different behaviors are expected in different contexts, but with my ability and time to teach her. My long-term dog-training goals tend to get nudged off-track by writing projects!
I looked at all the options, and tried to choose the realistic one for everyone here. Me, included. :)
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 26, 2009 @ 11:25 am
Gina - when the answer is that honest and introspective, I think it’s the right one.
The folks who don’t deserve to own dogs are those like Cotton’s owners who say they’ve looked at (and tried) all the options when all they’ve really done is made a half-assed, self-centered search for an easy fix.
Comment by Janeen — July 26, 2009 @ 12:04 pm
It is indeed a downer for you, losing Charlotte.
No way you could have had her for dinner!
My husband tries to teach my cat not to kill birds, but it is not going to happen anytime soon.
It is the sport of the hunt for some animals, even if we do not see it as a sport, ourselves.
Comment by Colorado Transplant — July 26, 2009 @ 12:14 pm
Oh … someone e-mailed me asking what happened to the Red Rover meat chicks. While I still am a firm believer in sustainably and humanely raised and slaughtered livestock, this was not the season to start raising my own meat.
In short order my dad died and I lost three of McKenzie’s puppies at birth (stillborn, birth defect/euthanize, fader). I had had it up to *here* with death, so a couple days after losing the puppies I put the chicks on Craigslist. They went to a rancher, ultimately destined for her freezer instead of mine.
For now, I’m all about the egg-layers.
***
Also: I wonder sometimes what my mail carrier thinks is going on here.
I live in surburbia, not 10 miles from the golden dome of the California state Capitol, and I have day-old chicks delivered. And then that fencing? Return address: Premier Sheep Supplies, Iowa.
The chicks are legal … as long as they’re hens. Goats and sheep will have to wait until I’m living somewhere else.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 26, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
I have five black retrievers of a certain type on 6 1/2 acres of land in the Gold Country of the Sierra foothills.
I also have chickens and guinea fowl. The chickens have a dedicated coop and yard. The coop and yard are completely (top and bottom included) enclosed in heavy duty chain link fencing. This keeps out our greatest preditors….hawks and racoons. I bring the chickens fresh yard clippings and food leftovers daily.
The guinea fowl are for rattlesnake protection. They must roam freely to have an effect. I admit that the dogs are interested in the guinea activity, especially during mating season when they RUN all over the property doing battle with beaks and wings, but they are remarkably good about leaving a living bird alone. I would not punish a dog for allowing instincts to kick in but in approximately 25 years of keeping guineas we’ve lost 2 birds to our dogs.
We also have sheep, goats and llamas so I obviously agree with Gina on life-style.
Comment by Patty Smiley — July 26, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
Gina, are you planning on having goat’s milk along with the chicken eggs for your breakfast someday? Clara and Ilario probably shouldn’t have the milk, but some of the other members of your brood could, don’t ya think?
Comment by Colorado Transplant — July 26, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
See, retrievers can learn to kill without losing their useful motor patterns! My first golden killed my pet Muscovy duck. So? If I didn’t want her killed, I wouldn’t have let her roam near a dog with a big dose of bird dog instincts and drives.
I don’t know if you use your dogs on pheasants, but many dogs can’t tell the difference. After all, chickens and pheasants are so closely related that they hybridize and produce mule birds. She just thought she was doing you a favor. Normally, if she sees a bird like that, she knows she must bring it to you in her mouth.
Hybrids:
http://www.messybeast.com/gene.....-birds.htm
Currently, raccoons are a big menace to anyone who keeps poultry around here. A friend had his whole flock killed by raccoons that pulled their heads through the chicken wire and then bit them off. Imagine coming to feed the chooks in the morning, only to find they are hanging headless along the chicken wire.
I live where waterfowl are not common, and if a retriever exists, it’s going to be used for grouse and maybe pheasant. And those dogs can’t be trusted around chickens. We have an old family story that took place in the mid 50’s about some German shorthairs that were brought to work the grouse coverts in the high mountains. The dogs were let loose at a farm house, where the farmer had always let my grandpa and his friends shoot birds. Within seconds of leaving their kennels, the Kurzhaar went on point. They had scented the farmer’s chickens.
But unlike grouse or pheasant, they didn’t run for cover. This sorely vexed the Kurzhaar. They held the point anyway. That is, until someone, perhaps filled with touch of caprice, said the words “Put ‘em up!” The dogs dived, but instead of flushing the chickens, they caught and killed four of them.
Thinking they were going to have to pay for the farmer’s chickens, they really didn’t have such a good hunting trip. Their problems were further exacerbated when they the dogs ranged out too much for grouse hunting, and they were put back in their “dog box.”
The men took a collection. They knew they were going to have to pay for those dead chickens.
But when they returned to the farmer’s house that evening, he didn’t seem the least bit upset. He didn’t mention the birds at all. He just asked how the hunting was.
And then he asked, “Would you boys mind staying for some chicken dinner?”
You see, that old farmer was a practical sort and good-hearted fellow to boot. He liked having people over to shoot birds and talk, and seeing that those dogs had killed those birds, he saw an opportunity to have a some dinner company.
Comment by retrieverman — July 26, 2009 @ 3:00 pm
Interesting about the pheasant-chicken connection … yes, she has had pheasants.
I’m really liking the fence idea now. Too bad it’s too hot outside to take it out of the box and set it up. (But the chickens aren’t putting any effort to get around in this heat, either, so they’re safe for now.)
Comment by Gina Spadafori — July 26, 2009 @ 4:27 pm
Wow, Gina, I can’t imagine how you felt when you saw what happened to Charlotte. Although the incident was/is intellectually understandable, it must still have been shocking. I am sorry.
Hope the fence works well and brings harmony to all.
Comment by A.C. — July 26, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
Re-posting H. Houlahan’s post, after some spam-fighting:
—-
So sorry to hear about Charlotte. There certainly are birds who make themselves into favorites. I doubt I could eat Chelsea A. Arthur or Crooked Toe.
FWIW, the dual keys to making my medium to extremely-high prey-drive dogs poultry-reliable has been supervised free-ranging from as early as possible, and giving the dogs a job that involves the poultry.
When I got my first chicks, I made sure the dogs got daily butt-sniff sessions with the chicks in my hand.
As soon as the chicks could run loose, the dogs were unrestrained among them — but with my eyeballs glued to their very intention.
The very presence of a physical barrier or restraint will intensify the desire to get the object on the other side or just out of reach.
I had some small issues with Rosie recreationally mugging the guineas (never the chickens or ducks). Interestingly, this was solved when I started asking her to fetch and drive the flock. If I’d left her to her own devices or failed to correct the muggings, they would have no doubt escalated to murder.
But all four dogs’ main poultry duty is as guardians, and they take this very seriously. They are firm believers in the Lurking Chickenhawk Menace. Unfortunately, they believe that crows and hot air balloons are part of the conspiracy.
The Premiere netting is GREAT. You don’t need to be handy to install it, but you do need to be free of megadoses of Benadryl. Do not ask me how I know.
Figure out where you are going to drive your ground stakes, and get someone brawny to do it for you.
Did you get that cool new charger from NZ they are selling — the one that runs on house current, a 12V, or a solar kit? I like it a lot.
Comment by H.Houlahan — July 27, 2009 @ 5:52 am
Gina - i too have the same dream. Some day some land and animals.
Where will you go if not California?
Comment by Sarah — July 27, 2009 @ 9:51 am
I’m late on this but I just had to share.
My Standard Schnauzer, Trooper, brought me a wild bunny yesterday. Laid it gently at my feet. “Mom, I brought dinner!” The bunnies are usually smart enough to stay out of the dog yard, but this one messed up. The bunny, like your chicken, was a clean kill, and quite good enough for the stew pot.
I didn’t scold him as I used a box to scoop up his prize. After all, it’s what his ancestors did so well.
Comment by schnauzer — August 2, 2009 @ 8:47 am
Update on this: The fencing is up, but it’s not “hot.” Gotta do some training first for chickens and dogs before the fence bites.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — August 2, 2009 @ 8:53 am