This just in: Obama family narrows the choices
By Gina Spadafori
January 11, 2009
The American Kennel Club has just send out a breathless media alert that the Obama family has narrowed the choices for first dog down to the Portuguese Water Dog or the Labradoodle (a/k/a a Labrador-Poodle cross).
On paper, both good choices, although The AKC sniffs that the Labradoodle isn’t an AKC breed. Don’t let that stop you, folks. I mean really, who cares?
It’s all about the choice of a reputable, ethical breeder if you’re going for a puppy, whether a PWD or Labradoodle. Ignore the howling of the murderous nutburgers at PETA. If the girls want a puppy, get a puppy. From a reputable, ethical breeder, not puppy-mill scum. But I bet you know that, already. Another thought to toss in: As Terrierman points out, the gene pool of PWDs is so small as to be worrisome in terms of genetic issues.
If you’re getting an adult dog from breed rescue or shelter, that’s great, too. Just get a good trainer or behaviorist to help you with the choice and the transition.
Since three of the Pet Connection bloggers helped to get you elected — via the now-retired BarkObama blog, and yes, I kid about having an impact — we’re ready to help you find a reputable, ethical breeder or a shelter/rescue group to support either choice.
Or I’ll just be here cheering on the new First Dog, no matter what breed or mix.
Somewhat related: The breeder of last year’s Westminster Best In Show winner, Uno the Beagle, barks back to the L.A. Times. Personally, I wouldn’t have defended the modern breed standard of the Pekingnese. The breed hasn’t always looked like a footstool, and hasn’t always struggled just to draw breath. There is a need for reform in breeding practices, now. But the rest of it is pretty worthwhile reading.
News flash for PETA: We’re done letting you frame the discussions without being challenged.
I’ll probably get yelled at, but for first-time dog owners with little kids, I’d advise them to contact a reputable private breeder for a nice puppy that’s been well handled since birth, rather than go to a shelter.
Neither of their choices would be my choice, but that’s the beauty of our friends the dogs. They are so accommodating that they come in different shapes and sizes so that every good person can have a good dog that suits their life.
Comment by Selma — January 11, 2009 @ 6:22 pm
I think they can do fine as long as they continue to do their homework and choose carefully, and I support them either way — rescue/shelter or reputable breeder, PWD or Labradoodle, puppy or adult.
Not that anyone asked. :)
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
But being a mixed-breed dog, there are no guarantees that a cross between a Lab and a Poodle will retain the low-allergen characteristics generally associated with the Poodle. This is a detail that should not be forgetten in this discussion.
Comment by The OTHER Pat — January 11, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
Speaking as a pretty bad allergy/asthma sufferer with two hypo-allergenic cats (Siberians, and they don’t even make me sneeze at all), they should be able to tell when visiting the breeder or with an adult dog in person.
And of course, I can vouch for the fact that you can dramatically reduce allergy reactions with diligent attention to some basic housekeeping/pet-keeping guidelines. I’m guessing they can get some help with those.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 6:48 pm
Re: The show-beagle breeder holding forth in the LA Times.
“Those are breed traits! Those breeds have always looked like what they look like. No, those traits come naturally when breeding dogs of the same breed…Peke to Peke produces all puppies that look like Pekes!” Genetic problems, she says, will happen regardless of the care a breeder takes; it’s just a part of nature.
What a load of happy horseshit.
What, did freakin’ Moses bring the concave-faced Pekingese down from the bloody mountain?
It’s that kind of brilliant grasp of genetic selection that has gotten us where we are.
Comment by H. Houlahan — January 11, 2009 @ 7:07 pm
They are limited to the breed of dog they can have due to one of Obama’s daughters being allergic to dander.
Comment by Dogs — January 11, 2009 @ 7:13 pm
How do you find a reputable lab/poodle breeder?
I actually hope they go with the PWD. Less likely to become a trend. I can just see the commemorative First Doodle plates now . . . {grin}
Comment by straybaby — January 11, 2009 @ 7:40 pm
I actually have talked to a couple of Labradoodle breeders I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend, pending further investigation, home visit, etc. This came up in research for the upcoming Consumers Digest piece I wrote.
They’re breeding for the companion market, but they’re doing everything right by any standard I can think of, including screenings, health and socialization, take-back clauses and more. Are they the minority? Probably. But then so are people I would consider reputable breeders of either Labradors or Poodles.
I know this is controversial, but … I would rather refer someone who wants a puppy like this to a hobby breeder of crossbreds who’s doing everything right than to a careless, clueless quick-buck backyard breeder or to a puppy-mill retail outlet such as a pet store or Web site for a Poodle or Labrador.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 7:53 pm
DREADFUL response from Uno’s breeder. It’s deliberate lies (or delusions) like hers that are KILLING the purebred dog and playing right into PETA’s hand. There’s hardly a modern show dog that looks like its documented historic precedents.
Comment by EmilyS — January 11, 2009 @ 7:58 pm
It’s a matter of evolution, Emily. Ten years ago, I might have said much the same.
Now … I shake my head.
I firmly belief that closed registries (and minds), crippling breed standards and “if you’re not with us you’re agin” us attitudes have got to go if we’re to continue to have a variety of healthy, purpose-bred dogs from which to choose for those of us who wish that choice.
That, along with helping to build no-kill communities so we get shelter/rescue dogs the forever homes they deserve, too, while continuing to prove the “we must kill them to save them” mentality of the PETA types is another lie.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 8:12 pm
I object to the putting down of the Pekingese by some people. I had two of them. Both could breathe fine, thank you. They lived happy healthy lives until the ripe old ages of 14/15.
The Pekingese is one of the oldest dog breeds. They didn’t survive 2000 years to face proposed extinction now. That show champion Pekingese is a freak. Please don’t forget there are plenty of healthy breathe-capable Pekingese living in ordinary people’s homes around the world.
Comment by Dee — January 11, 2009 @ 8:40 pm
That Crufts Best In Show was considered the “best” of 20,000 dogs over four days of judging. In other words, that was no ordinary freak. He is (was?) an extraordinary freak.
The breed standard that led to the Best In Show choice of a dog who had to sit on icepacks to stay cool enough to breathe needs to be changed, and changed quickly, so the older type of Pekingese can be re-established and accepted as the norm.
That’s not a bash on the Peke; it’s a bash on a fashion for an extreme type of Peke.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 8:50 pm
I vote Labradoodle, and I was just kicked off a dog forum for saying that mixed bred dogs are great. Specifically, the BEST thing to happen to dogdom in the last decade.
There is nothing fundamentally different between a Labradoodle and any of 100 other breeds except time. Victorian fancy for no deeper reason than “we can” and longevity through popularity has given us most of our breeds.
The Labradoodle is only “impure” because people crossed them in the 1980s instead of the 1880s. Otherwise, we know what makes a Labradoodle and I’m 100% supportive of popularizing outcrosses.
We’ve gone from a paradigm of local landraces of dogs to open breeds, to closed breeds, to inbred messes. A Labradoodle doesn’t solve the degradation of closed gene pools and popular sires, but it does allow us to turn back the clock on what we’ve done so far.
And time is precious. Advancements in technology might allow us to cut out harmful genes without losing any other genetic diversity.
No fancy “form follows function,” many false stories of ancientness, and dubious accounts of crucial functions that are not now nor never true… need separate a “purebred” dog from a mixed bred dog.
The only real line between the two is that someone, somewhere, considers them “pure” and thus better. We know that “pure” isn’t perfect, nor is it better in many respects.
So bring on the Labradoodles.
Comment by Christopher — January 11, 2009 @ 8:50 pm
Word.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
Nine pages into searching Google images for “Pekingese”, I finally found this:
http://caninecoalition.com/img.....8212;0.jpg
from back when they looked like real dogs instead of defective, demented tribbles. I think a big part of the problem is that no one remembers when they looked like this. Ditto Siamese cats.
Don’t. Get. Me. Started.
Comment by Susan Fox — January 11, 2009 @ 8:54 pm
“defected, demented tribbles”
Oh Susan … I’m signing off with a laugh. Thanks, I needed that!
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 11, 2009 @ 8:57 pm
Oh, and I forgot to address the “but the puppymillers are breeding labradoodles!” bit.
Um, yeah, they will breed anything. It has nothing to do with the quality of the dog. IT has everything to do with the market’s desire.
Is it shallow to want a dog for a fad? For what they look like? For some quality of their fur? If that’s the case, axe about half the existing breeds right now. They have never had nor will have a reason to exist other than fashion or minor trait like color or fullness of their fur or simply because.
God did not create dog breeds, they were not ordained to exist and always exist in the forms we have them now, they are the objects of our fashions and desires. And nostalgia is the only reason many still exist.
If people want these dogs and other people supply them, I say go right ahead.
There will be more good breeders with time and acceptance and in this respect the market is right. We need new blood. We need a new look at the culture of who breeds dogs and why, and the Labradoodle is the perfect vector for both.
Comment by Christopher — January 11, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
Dee, you said it: “the show champion Peke is a freak”. The same must be said of MANY show champions. And that’s the problem. Only a very few breeds are truly well represented by show champs. But how is the average person interested in purebred dogs to know? I support the diversity of dog types and functions that are represented by purebred dogs. But no one can support the typical show bulldog, pug, or even (my breed) the AmStaff or sadly to an increasing extent, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, one of the least polluted (because uncommon) of AKC breeds
Gina, I’m not clear which way you think evolution is going in this matter, but I agree with your comment 10000%. We must find that “third way”. We can’t save the REAL purebred and support the kind of breeder who has her head in the sand, or truly believes things like Uno’s breeder wrote. And we obviously can’t support the miscreants of PETA/HSUS
Comment by EmilyS — January 11, 2009 @ 9:12 pm
Christoper, breeds are not created in a few generations. The Labradoodle MAY become a breed. It is not one at this time.
(and the only one I’ve met was truly a combination of the WORST of the 2 breeds, the most hyperactive, tense and unruly dog I’ve ever met)
Comment by EmilyS — January 11, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
Sounds like the definition of a “breed” may be coming up for grabs in the future, with luck, to the benefit of the dogs. Fingers crossed.
Comment by Susan Fox — January 11, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
There IS something wrong with the Labradoodle.
The name. Dear god, the NAME.
Comment by Christie Keith — January 11, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
”..no one remembers when they looked like this. Ditto Siamese cats.”
I do. I like Pekes and I hate the ‘new’ ones with faces that look like discs. To me, a Tibetan spaniel looks more like the Pekes I knew as a kid - not as long ago as you might think.
Traditionally, they were a very long-lived breed. One of my school friends had one that would play fetch for hours. Today, they don’t seem to be able to walk.
I have Brussels Griffons and while Digby snores if his head is at a certain angle, they are both very active and terrier-like. They chase squirrels, race around the house and yard, play fetch, go for good brisk walks and aren’t short of breath at all.
That Crufts dog didn’t win - his owner and/or handler did. That’s the way those shows work. If you want to know who will win Westminster, just find the sculptor who works on the cup. A few days ahead of the BIS judging in ‘07, lo and behold he was sculpting a Springer.
And Siamese cats - a shame. They used to look like regular cats that were uniquely marked. Now, they look like freaks and have all kinds of health issues as well.
I’ve done a 180 on ‘designer’ dogs. I think those people who are breeding mutts are doing dogs a favour ultimately. As long as they care, it doesn’t matter what kind of dogs they breed as far as I’m concerned.
Comment by Selma — January 11, 2009 @ 9:34 pm
Christopher, as someone who was on the forum, you weren’t kicked off for champion labradoodles. You were kicked off for being a jerk. I don’t agree with everything you say, but you usually have a point. Even if you feel like you have to be a jerk to make it.
Comment by Cait — January 11, 2009 @ 10:42 pm
Like Gina, I discovered at least one Labradoodle breeder who was doing things right: health testing, explaining to people that they weren’t necessarily hypoallergenic, etc. So they are out there. Can’t say the same for the people who are churning out maltipoos and such. None of the ones I contacted were willing to be interviewed.
Comment by Kim Campbell Thornton — January 11, 2009 @ 11:28 pm
EmilyS -
It’s all in how you want to define “breed.” At one time, Flatcoats and Curly coated retrievers were the same breed. And Black wasn’t the only color of flatcoats.
At one time, the hairless cat was simply an aberration in an single individual. It wasn’t a “breed” until someone said, “let there be breed.”
If you want to say “it must breed true!” then we can have a 100 page discussion on what makes any breed “true.” Does a particular ear-set, color of coat or eyes or nose mean “true” versus “false?”
In some breeds, yes, others, no.
A Border Collie can breed “true” with prick or flop or mixed years, any color of eyes, a myriad coat colors… unless it’s an AKC Border Collie, then depending on the show you attend a different set of coat colors may or may not make your dog a “Border Collie.”
I think everyone understands that a Labradoodle is a mix of a Lab and a Poodle. F1, F2, recross…. just semantics. The colors we’ll allow in, the style of the coat… all details that may or may not be determined.
I say “An F1 Cross between a Lab and a Poodle” is just as valid a breed standard as a 20 page document which may even say no more crosses allowed, only products of doodles with a list of characteristics.
If a Pharaoh Hound can be a valid name for a dog which has nothing in common with Egypt or the Pharaohs except a Victorian era molding to resemble jackals in hieroglyphs, the (as Christie point out) silly “Labradoodle” name is decidedly more accurate and descriptive than many breed names.
And the Labradoodle’s extreme popularity might be new, but the breed is not.
IMO, the only thing standing between Labradoodle and “breed” is the same thing standing between the 99.99% Dalmatians (.001 Setters) that don’t have uric acid disorders and “Dalmatian.” The established keepers of the books won’t accept “one drop” of anything they don’t have a breed standard for and bureaucratic control over.
When “purity” is your cachet, you can’t go making otherwise rational decisions that would pop that bubble.
Comment by Christopher — January 11, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
Cait -
Telling you that Queen Victoria didn’t love your “breed,” (dispelling yet another fantastical breed history) that it has no stop and that this phenomenon has been an ongoing source of debate for at least 100 years, and that calling it “pure” when it’s actually Borzoi cross is not being a jerk.
You might not like any of those observations, and a particular mod didn’t like the observation that she owns two breeds notorious for disease (pugs and dobes) doesn’t make me a jerk either.
But why so negative on jerks? I’m sure the Chinese think that Gina’s a big jerk for exposing their nasty tricks, and the “kill to be kind” crowd think Christie is a big jerk for advocating forcefully for life after amputation.
If anything, shallow social graces is what has perpetrated the group think we find in the communities who have brought our breeds where we see them today. You can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs, and despite honey catching more flies than vinegar, I can tell you a hundred other vile substances that work much better than honey.
And sometimes, you need to fling those too.
Cheers.
Comment by Christopher — January 11, 2009 @ 11:44 pm
“I’ll probably get yelled at, but for first-time dog owners with little kids, I’d advise them to contact a reputable private breeder for a nice puppy that’s been well handled since birth, rather than go to a shelter.”
(Comment by Selma — January 11, 2009 @ 6:22 pm)
Selma, I work in a shelter, and in many cases I would tend to agree with you. As much as I want to see our shelter dogs adopted, I cringe at the thought of inexperienced dog owners with children adopting adult strays. Biggest reason being we don’t know why the dog is a stray in the first place, and it could have some serious baggage attached that an inexperienced owner is really going to have to work on.
When kids are involved, things can get really crazy and an unprepared new owner could end up with far more than they bargained for, including a kid being bitten, or a dog being stuck out in the backyard and neglected because it “plays too rough with the kids.”
I know this kind of thing can happen with puppies from a shelter as well as from a breeder, but I feel like responsible breeders are in a better position to hold the new owner’s hand and help them through the rough patches than many shelters are. An adult dog of unknown origin is just too big a risk for parents that aren’t really prepared for what they are getting themselves into.
If the adopter was an experienced dog owner who was willing to give the dog proper training and time to adjust, and was going to make sure the kids weren’t going to mistreat the dog or provoke it in any way, that’s different.
But new owners with kids really need to do lots of homework, have the support of someone with experience, and be willing to spend a lot of time working to correct any bad habits an adopted dog may come with. These can be really good reasons for starting from scratch with a well-bred puppy from a responsible breeder, imho.
Comment by stellaluna — January 12, 2009 @ 12:08 am
“I do. I like Pekes and I hate the ‘new’ ones with faces that look like discs. To me, a Tibetan spaniel looks more like the Pekes I knew as a kid - not as long ago as you might think.”
(Comment by Selma — January 11, 2009 @ 9:34 pm)
With you on this one as well. I spent many years showing dogs and have just gotten back into it with a different breed. And while I love and support responsible breeders and purebred dogs, there are a few breeds I would never, ever want to own a “modern” and/or show type of. Bulldogs is an obvious one — I can see why people find them adorable, I really can — especially those puppies! But I just can’t justify breeding something that extreme that it needs so much help just to live.
I had a pet-quality Pug that was born in the 80s — a stray that just adopted me — who was a wonderful, adorable little guy. He didn’t have a mean bone in his body and had such a zest for life! When he died at approximately age 14 (we estimated his age at about 2 at the time we found him), I started looking around for another Pug and was really horrified at how the dogs in the ring looked, with really extremely buggy eyes and big rolls of skin nearly covering up their noses. These did not appeal to me in the least.
Our Puggy looked like the 50s or 60s style purebred, with an actual nose — not much of one, but it was there! I’ve seen the same thing in Pekes. The old-fashioned show Pekes were far less extreme, and didn’t look like they needed to be treated like eggs. And while I love watching modern Cockers in the ring, I hate the thought of that coat on most pet Cockers, because it’s much too much, and more often than not ends up matted to the skin, not like the old-fashioned, “My Own Brucie” style of Cocker with a reasonable amount of feathering, not to mention head shape.
Of course when you are looking at these same breeds as bred by those who breed for the pet trade (which is what we tend to see in shelters), you don’t see most of the extremes. I think that’s because the show people are the ones who fall into fads of style, then try to “one-up” each other to compete, while the pet breeders, for the most part, stick with what was popular years ago. I’ve seen plenty of adorable Pugs and Pekes in our shelter that were moderate in appearance that I wouldn’t mind owning myself.
The problem seems to be that in the case of the show dogs, the judges start going along with these fads and rewarding the extremes. And with the older judges who frowned upon the extremes dying out one by one, styles just keep changing, and fads keep taking hold, and things get out of hand.
I just hope the whole “Pedigree Dogs Exposed” brouhaha will have some kind of positive effect somewhere — that the right people will hear it and start to take action to correct a lot of these concerns about their breeds. We can’t control what commercial breeders or ignorant people will do, but if those people who are the “keepers of the keys” of their breeds will try to look at this objectively instead of spend all their time being defensive about being singled out, maybe this can be turned around and taken out of the hands of the AR people who are just taking advantage of the situation.
Comment by stellaluna — January 12, 2009 @ 12:39 am
#
There IS something wrong with the Labradoodle.
The name. Dear god, the NAME.
Comment by Christie Keith — January 11, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
Thanks Christie! Now I have to wipe coffee off my keyboard and screen.
Comment by Anne T — January 12, 2009 @ 4:14 am
At one time, Flatcoats and Curly coated retrievers were the same breed. And Black wasn’t the only color of flatcoats. ….
Comment by Christopher — January 11, 2009 @ 11:32 pm
Goldens and flatcoats were the same breed, not curlies and flats. And flatcoats still do come in three colors — black (most common by far), brown (“liver”) and yellow. Yellow is not accepted in the show ring — stupid, in my book, and again, who cares? — but we have yellow flatties at agility and obedience trials, hunt tests, etc.
Here’s Luka, a yellow flatcoat. Compare and contrast with Sulo, a golden owned by the same family.
And by the way, Christopher, despite your love of flinging “other substances” and your stated belief that it’s necessary to do so, please be reminded that you will not be doing that here. Civil discussions, only.
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 12, 2009 @ 6:55 am
There IS something wrong with the Labradoodle.
The name. Dear god, the NAME.
Comment by Christie Keith — January 11, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
All of these names made up by puppy-mill scum to move the merchandise make me puke.
Had someone write in the other day about a problem with her “Cockalier” puppy fresh from the pet store (and likely, from the reading of it, newly broken with parvo).
Besides the fact that a “cockalier” sounds like a sex toy … geez, I told her GET OFF THE NET AND SEE A VET! Which she probably thinks she can’t afford, having just paid heaven knows what for a spaniel mix in support of more puppy-mill misery.
:::sigh:::
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 12, 2009 @ 7:36 am
Gina, while in general I agree with you about the silly names made up by puppy millers to sell their mutts, I believe that “labradoodle” and “goldendoodle” cannot actually be blamed on them. I think those two are the creations of the Australian breeders who were, originally, trying to create a better guide dog.
Doesn’t make the names any less silly, of course.
Comment by Lis — January 12, 2009 @ 8:13 am
Gee, I learn something every day. I was totally unaware that Pharaoh hounds were a Victorian creation, Christopher. “If a Pharaoh Hound can be a valid name for a dog which has nothing in common with Egypt or the Pharaohs except a Victorian era molding to resemble jackals in hieroglyphs,…” Here I thought they remained pretty much an isolated breed on Malta until the 1960s.
From Wiki: “The first two specimens of the breed were brought to Britain from Malta in the 1920s, but at that time, no litter was bred. Again, some dogs were imported to the UK in the early 1960s, and the first litter was born in 1963. The breed standard was recognised by the The Kennel Club in 1974. The breed was called the Pharaoh Hound although this name was already used by the FCI as an alternative name for the Ibizan Hound at that time. When the FCI abolished this name in 1977 and decided to call the Ibizan Hound exclusively by its original Spanish name Podenco Ibicenco, the term Pharaoh Hound was transferred to the Kelb tal-Fenek, whose breed standard had been recognised by the FCI at the same time [3].”
Since the name Pharoah hound was given by the Federation Cynologique Internationale, not the Kennel Club, to the breed in 1977, and Queen Elizabeth II headed the English monarchy, I really fail to see how the Kelb tal-Fenek/Pharoah Hound could be a product of the Victorians?
Comment by Anne T — January 12, 2009 @ 8:27 am
“All of these names made up by puppy-mill scum to move the merchandise make me puke.”
(Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 12, 2009 @ 7:36 am)
I swear, I think the fad of made-up names for mixed breed dogs seems to have gotten started with this little e-mailed haha that was making the rounds several years ago:
http://www.funny-dog.com/jokesfun/crossedwith.htm
Comment by stellaluna — January 12, 2009 @ 8:46 am
“Here’s Luka, a yellow flatcoat.”
What a gorgeous dog! I remember seeing a cream-colored Schipperke in obedience at Golden Gate in the late 70s. It was very pretty, and apparently the owner was very brave to have been taking it out because from what I remember, the people in that breed didn’t like that little “problem” being made public. I haven’t seen or heard of another one since, but I know they have to be out there. That’s the kind of thing that some enterprising creep would try to capitalize on these days, if it were possible — like white Dobermans.
Comment by stellaluna — January 12, 2009 @ 8:52 am
I’m really glad to see the ‘appleheaded’ Siamese making a comeback. Seems like there’s a real trend toward these in the pet world, if not the show world. They are just beautiful cats:
http://www.siamesekittens.com/
I’m not recommending this breeder - but just look at that picture. Now that’s what a Siamese cat should look like - nice muscular cat with very blue eyes and very distinctive points. Not one of those way too skinny kitties. After all - your acquiring a cat, not a runway model.
Comment by 2CatMom — January 12, 2009 @ 10:46 am
AnneT -
Not Victorian? Much much younger? Fantastic, you’re helping my point! Very much helping my point. The point is that the dog is NOT the dog of the Pharaohs, despite the name. I moved the bar 5,000 years this side of history and you just moved it another 100 years.
You forgot to quote this bit from the Wiki:
“Ethical Dilemma
While the “Egyptian Myth” has been thoroughly disproved—both historically and genetically—many breeders and breed clubs still promote this breed as “the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Hound.” In addition, little is done by the breed clubs to reeducate the public.
In fact, yearly in the U.S. at nationally televised dog shows the breed is introduced as “the ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Hound”, the description provided by the national breed club. This raises a number of major ethical question: are puppy buyers being mislead thinking they are buying an ancient Egyptian breed when they are really purchasing a rabbit hunting dog from Malta; do these actions subvert a national treasure and symbol belonging to the Maltese people.”
And that bit from the wiki holds true. When I look up the Breed History on the AKC website, it says:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/phar.....istory.cfm
“The Pharaoh Hound, one of the oldest domesticated dogs in recorded history, traces his lineage to roughly 3000 B. C. Fortunately, the history of Egyptian civilization was well documented and preserved through paintings and hieroglyphics.”
DNA analysis has shown that the Ibizan and Pharaoh Hounds are modern creations about as old as most other breeds (thus Victorian era).
Comment by Christopher — January 12, 2009 @ 2:28 pm
Gina,
Info noted on Flatcoats. I was reading about them at the excellent Retrieverman weblog and trying to piece back together where the now divergent “breeds” actually came from. He has several good posts on the subject and how different colors used to show up in the same litter, etc.
As for the civility matter, I’ll note that the ad hominem name calling is not coming from me.
Comment by Christopher — January 12, 2009 @ 2:56 pm
So have I in regards to Retrieverman! There is a breeder of field goldens within 5 miles of me, and though I am not a fan of goldens, I do like her dogs a lot, and have participated in Obed and AG classes with dogs of her breeding. They are much closer to a flatcoat in type, and do well at every sport known to retrievers other than the AKC breed ring. If I were enamored of goldens, she’d be among my first choices for a pup.
Comment by Anne T — January 12, 2009 @ 5:34 pm
Anne,
I’m laughing because I seem to have influenced you in that you know the “best” goldens are the ones most like flatcoats. Hmmmm … where would ANYONE get an idea like that?
:)
Gina
Comment by Gina Spadafori — January 12, 2009 @ 6:18 pm
Hahaha Gina to answer your question: anyone who has trialed in Agility, taken a plethora of training classes in various dog sports, is interested in breed history or been a regular on this Blog! lol!!!
My cousin by marriage and her husband have had flatcoats for years. They run an Inn and the dog(s) have always been part of the welcoming committee, a job they have done with dignity. Then they get to go down to the beach and play in the surf.
The new owner of the training center where I have been going, once she gets things organized and classes resume, has a flatcoat along with labs and I think a golden. For an uncommon breed, there are a lot of flatcoats in the periphery of my life!
Comment by Anne T — January 12, 2009 @ 8:01 pm
I met someone recently with two field Goldens - she was visiting from Kentucky. We started chatting because I said “Wow, beautiful dogs. They look the way Golden retrievers used to look before they got all weird. I didn’t know there were any still around”.
Heh.
Comment by Selma — January 13, 2009 @ 10:05 am
I’ve had to correct myself a couple of times when talking about these” hybrid” dogs. I don’t have a problem with the dogs themselves, I have a problem with bad breeders who deliberately lie on their websites, etc. Aka; please do your homework, and if they won’t let you visit the kennel, find someone else.
Comment by Alex Verrastro — January 15, 2009 @ 3:17 pm