Comments on: Last roundup for America’s wild horses?

By: The OTHER Pat

The OTHER Pat — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:53:18 +0000

Hey - just pull out your rusty - er - TRUSTY old White’s Emasculator and have at it! Yee-HA!

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_de.....b0d0204ae5

By: Gina Spadafori

Gina Spadafori — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:25:11 +0000

I’m just trying to picture field medicine vasectomies for wild stallions … could be very nasty.

By: H. Houlahan

H. Houlahan — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:00:44 +0000

I doubt that vasectomizing stallions would do much for population control. A mare will continue to cycle until a breeding takes, so even if the stallion of a harem is sterile, eventually someone with some live swimmers is going to get in there. (Mares “cheat” or go off with some other stallion.) Sterilizing males in non-monogamous species is ineffective birth control. (Parallel situation — five years ago, in parts of PA, the male:female ratio among whitetail deer was 1:12 or worse. Normal ratio is close to 1:1. Yet just about every doe got bred every rut. They would continue to cycle until they got pregnant. There were a lot of late-born fawns who entered their first fall too small to have a good chance at living through winter as a result, but shooting bucks was absolutely useless as population control. It wasn’t until the regulations were changed to encourage more doe hunting and less antler-mania that the ratio started getting more normal, and the population started coming back into balance with the carrying capacity of the land.)

I don’t pretend to have a solution for wild horses. I was weaned on Margerite Henry’s book about Wild Horse Annie (and Will James’ cowboy books and all manner of other horse literature.) I cannot even fool myself that I am unbiased here. But I have trouble believing that the gubbmint knows best, and is taking the interests of the horses and those who value their historical role into proper accounting here.

By: Lady Copper

Lady Copper — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:24:25 +0000

Yeah, the BLM is not doing its job and hasn’t been for quite a while. It wouldn’t be that hard to vasectomise (rather than normal geld - leave herd dynamics intact) a majority of the stallions out on the ranges, thus keeping populations under control. It also shouldn’t be that hard to just say no to more cattle grazing!

By: HelenC

HelenC — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 03:51:20 +0000

My understanding is that there is not a population problem or environmental problem. It’s just that the BLM are misguided, or lying.

The Ginger Kathrens documentary on Cloud in the Pryor herd shows quite healthy horses.

Additionally, there is evidence that the BLM is rounding up and keeping younger animals and sending the older ones less likely to survive back out onto the range.

Yes it’s complicated but that does not mean balance cannot be sought and found. At a minimum, the cruel methods BLM uses in their round ups and holding facilities are unconscionable.

By: Anne T.

Anne T. — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:01:32 +0000

Yes, but the point could be made that the origins of today’s equines occurred here in NA. So although Equis callabus is not native, it could be argued that it’s ancestors were.
No, wild horses aren’t vermin, but if their existence interferes with the raising of domesticated bovines for meat, then the Beef Industry and it’s lobbyists will pull out all the stops to make them so. That was my point. Not semantics. A dead horse by any other name or means is a dead horse.
There is also the issue of the ability of the environment to support horses. If there are too many, then the environment that supports them erodes. There needs to be management tools in place to support a core group of horses. That was also my point.
And there is the political movitation behind the culling. I saw recently where there is a move afoot to request opening more Federal lands to cattle grazing. Concurrently, there is also a move to kill wild horses. A coincidence?
I don’t think so.

By: EmilyS

EmilyS — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:23:19 +0000

well, let’s be accurate with words.
These horses are “feral”, not “wild.”
They are not native to NA since the last ice age and that means something in terms of how they survive and their impact on grasslands.
You may or may not think that is relevant to how we treat these horses, but it is the truth.

There are so many complicated issues here, from competition for rangeland (why should cattle be allowed all the grass) to what foods we eat (why not eat horses if we eat cows?).

The few dozen words of Kim’s post don’t begin to address them.

Personally, I don’t think feral horses are vermin, but I don’t think they are sacred either.

By: Anne T.

Anne T. — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:01:15 +0000

You are right, and I am wrong with the terminology. Apologies. Killing/euthanasia and any other word doesn’t disguise the brutality of it all, or the fact it isn’t a real solution to the problem, as has been proven time and again with feral cats and with shelters who have chosen this route.

By: Gina Spadafori

Gina Spadafori — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:53:25 +0000

Anne, let’s be accurate with the terms here. Killing for population control is “killing,” not “euthanasia.”

By: Anne T.

Anne T. — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:30:48 +0000

I am not a horse person anymore, and I expect to be flamed for this, but there are not enough qualified homes with skilled horse people to adopt all the wild mustangs out there and bring them along. As it is with dogs and human stupidity, so it is with horses. While euthanasia is not the solution I want to see, neither is their remaining penned for life on a BLM lot somewhere. Or trying to subsist on over grazed land. What I suspect is happening, is the the Federal Government in the guise of the BLM, wants to open more grazing rights for cattle, it being hard times and all, and therefore the quasi-protected horses have to go!
A better solution might be using our tax dollars to catch, speuter and release wild horses back to the range on an as needed basis when the population in specific ranges gets too large for that area to support.
By the way, if you have access to the Oxford English Dictionary online or your library does, go look up the word “spay”. It’s been around for millenia, and men did it for a living, going from manor village to manor village, inserting hot iron into mares, hogs and possibly even dogs.
As for The Greatest American Dog, Mr. Woyton expresses it beautifully! Thank you for that link. Apparently, CBS approached real live dog trainers to appear on the show. You know, people who do this for a living, and surprise! Not one of them bit!!!!! Hence the assortment of training incompetency CBS is touting, trying to drive up ratings.