Comments on: Oprah: Making people see the cruelty of puppy mills

By: JenniferJ

JenniferJ — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:49:23 +0000

Another point,

If you are breeding mentally, physically sound dogs who conform to their standard, then even if you are not showing, some of them may be shown by other fanciers or competed with or employed in other venues.
There have always been breeders who enjoyed breeding but not showing, working, competing etc.. and they have been the source for many excellent and influential dogs.

The attitude of “if you don’t show, work, hunt etc… you must be a back-yarder or puppy mill” is relatively new. Part of it was the willingness of most of us to accept the AR line of “massive pet overpopulation” and regrettably a certain component of it has been the occurrence of witch hunts within the ranks of dog breeders for less than noble reasons.

We now know better I hope. But it is going to take effort to educate the public, the dog/cat community and legislators. If we have no alternative sources for the pet buying public, they will continue to support the puppy-mill web-mill industry in some guise or another

By: Lis

Lis — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:17:17 +0000

Christie, yes, temperament testing! An excellent requirement!

By: slt

slt — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:21:24 +0000

O yeah - TT - that’s another good tool for the box.

By: slt

slt — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:20:13 +0000

CGC I think is a good AKC program. Therapy Dog certification may be appropriate as a tool for measuring what you’re looking for as well. If I expand beyond my fictional Papillon scenario, one could include ‘family hunting companion’ as a non-title awarding means of evaluating appropriate temperament for Sporting breeds. Also maybe use as a demo dog in obedience classes or school presentations would be an indicator. It’s an interesting idea and I’m glad you brought it up.

By: Christie Keith

Christie Keith — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:12:36 +0000

Not at all. I agree that in every endeavor, outside perspective will always prevent tunnel vision. :)

What about this?

http://www.atts.org/index.html

By: Lis

Lis — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:55:34 +0000

My friend’s cocker spanial, from what I can tell, comes from just this sort of breeder. Used to show, no longer does, still health tests, screens buyers, etc., but her goal is to produce good pets.

I strongly believe that if you breed you ought to compete your dogs in something, because it provides an outside reality check on the quality of your dogs. But “good household pet” is a real need that people have, and what do you compete your dogs in to test their quality as pets? Conformation showing isn’t it, competitive obedience is close but no cigar. And that’s a big expense, for something that’s not testing what you really want to test for. CGC and Therapy Dog certification as minimum requirements for breeding dogs for the important job of Good Pet?

I know this probably sounds a bit flip, but it isn’t meant to be.

By: slt

slt — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:52:57 +0000

Me too. I was taught that breeding for pets=bad. But eventually I came to believe that breeding carelessly=bad. And that there are some pet breeders who breed carelessly. And some show breeders who breed carelessly. etc.

‘Everybody must get stoned’

By: Christie Keith

Christie Keith — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:40:45 +0000

I read it. There was a time I would have drawn back in horror, and now I think it’s exactly what you should do.

And there are still lots of people who would love to stone me for that, I’m sure.

By: slt

slt — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:18:56 +0000

Here’s my proposed (fictional) scenario:
I am a Papillon breeder who has bred and shown for a few years but has always received far more inquiries from pet people than I can supply. These people typically ask for referrals to other sources but I have nowhere to refer them because all the other responsible breeders I know are in the same position as me - maybe one or two pet pups available per year vs. a whole bunch a pet inquiries. I try to refer them to Papillon rescue but some people don’t want an adult or don’t want a rescue or simply aren’t willing to be placed on a waiting list which is likely to be unreasonable in length of time. I try to educate them about the joys of mixed breeds and how sometimes very small dogs are available in shelters even though they may not be exactly what they’re looking for. In the end, at least some of these folks get puppy mill Paps because I could offer them no reasonable alternative to meet their desires.
Soooooo I decide to stop showing and invest the money I was spending there on breeding more often and to place any pups I don’t keep for myself as pets. I will continue my traditions of health screening, taking good care of my adults, screening homes, willing to take dogs back if things don’t work out, etc. I will do basically the same things I did as a show breeder but instead breed more often and not for show - for pets.
Some other Papillon breeders will follow my example and do the same for their own various reasons. Eventually we will build a network of responsible Pap breeders who breed for the pet market. That network will be there to absorb the pet buyers who previously had nowhere to go except pet shops. I feel good about what I’m doing and other Pap breeders who breed for show (or whatever) feel good about having a responsible breeder to refer pet buyers to. So now it’s no longer a case of telling people “Don’t buy from a pet shop and no, I don’t have anyplace to tell you where you CAN buy from”.

Did anyone actually read my whole story? ; ) It was fun to write!

By: Christie Keith

Christie Keith — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:07:42 +0000

I would have no problem with a small core of fanciers breeding to preserve true breed type and a larger pool of pet people responsibly and lovingly producing companion animals with less attention to breed type. Look at Labs and Goldens. HUGE variety of type, but the show and field dogs are still clearly recognizable from each other, and from pet bred dogs, and while there are some outliers, most of us can reasonably accurately identify a Lab and a Golden.

The existence of non-typey pet dogs doesn’t mean typey dogs cease to exist, as long as fanciers stick to their goal of preservation and improvement.