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	<title>Comments on: Dog discrimination: Why ignore a great pet because of color?</title>
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	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts.</description>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-384708</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Freak mutation&quot; = flatcoat joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Freak mutation&#8221; = flatcoat joke.</p>
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		<title>By: retrieverman</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-384669</link>
		<dc:creator>retrieverman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-384669</guid>
		<description>The yellow colored wavy-coat that begat the golden retriever wasn&#039;t a freak mutation. He was the result of interbreeding some kind of yellow or reddish colored setter into a line of wavy-coats.  I&#039;m sure there were many yellow and reds born before Nous, but most of these were culled. Nous only survived because his owner, who was a noble (whose name escapes my memory at the moment) owed a cobbler a debt. The yellow puppy was given to the cobbler. The 1st Baron Tweedmouth saw this dog at Brighton and purchased him. He proved to be such a good working retriever on the Tweedmouth shooting estate near Tomich, Scotland, that he was the founding sire of the yellow wavy-coated retriever line that became the basis for the golden retriever. This line bred back to black wavy-coats, an extinct retrievery water spaniel called the Tweed water spaniel, and some red setters. It was part and parcel of the way-coated breed. 

The wavy-coated breed is the ancestral stock for both the golden and the flat coat. The golden was, as you said, a color variety of the flat-coat originally. But it was usually registered as a liver flat-coat or a flat-coat &quot;Of any other color.&quot;  In 1908, the yellow color was recognized in the flat-coat as a standard color, but it is not a standard color now.

The yellow gene still pops up in flat-coats because a early sire in the breed, Don of Gerwn, carried the yellow gene. Although liver-colored, his grandsire was descended from Nous, known at that time as &quot;Tweedmouth&#039;s strain.&quot; Another source for the yellows in flat-coats is the Culham line of golden retriever, which was bred by Lord Harcourt. This strain was one of the three founding lines of golden in the first &quot;black and brown dog free&quot; studbook. For a while, you could register a dog based upon appearance, not pedigree, so flat-coats, goldens, and Labs were often born in the same litters! These dogs were registered as flat-coats originally and bred with black flat-coats. They were doing so when the golden was split off the flat-coat in 1911. After 1911, they had several litters in which black puppies were registered as flat-coats and the yellows. The blacks more than likely carried yellow genes.

However, the Culham dogs were very dark, much darker than most modern goldens and darker than any of the yellow flat-coats I&#039;ve seen, so my guess is Don of Gerwn is main the source for the yellow color. His grandsire was said to be &quot;cream-colored,&quot; which meant light gold at the time. I&#039;ve seen photos and paintings of Don. He&#039;s got lots of gold shadings on his really thick ruff. He&#039;s a liver dog, but he&#039;s definitely got some gold in him. He won one of the first International Retriever trials, and he became a heavily used stud in both flat-coats and goldens. This was in the early 1900&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The yellow colored wavy-coat that begat the golden retriever wasn&#8217;t a freak mutation. He was the result of interbreeding some kind of yellow or reddish colored setter into a line of wavy-coats.  I&#8217;m sure there were many yellow and reds born before Nous, but most of these were culled. Nous only survived because his owner, who was a noble (whose name escapes my memory at the moment) owed a cobbler a debt. The yellow puppy was given to the cobbler. The 1st Baron Tweedmouth saw this dog at Brighton and purchased him. He proved to be such a good working retriever on the Tweedmouth shooting estate near Tomich, Scotland, that he was the founding sire of the yellow wavy-coated retriever line that became the basis for the golden retriever. This line bred back to black wavy-coats, an extinct retrievery water spaniel called the Tweed water spaniel, and some red setters. It was part and parcel of the way-coated breed. </p>
<p>The wavy-coated breed is the ancestral stock for both the golden and the flat coat. The golden was, as you said, a color variety of the flat-coat originally. But it was usually registered as a liver flat-coat or a flat-coat &#8220;Of any other color.&#8221;  In 1908, the yellow color was recognized in the flat-coat as a standard color, but it is not a standard color now.</p>
<p>The yellow gene still pops up in flat-coats because a early sire in the breed, Don of Gerwn, carried the yellow gene. Although liver-colored, his grandsire was descended from Nous, known at that time as &#8220;Tweedmouth&#8217;s strain.&#8221; Another source for the yellows in flat-coats is the Culham line of golden retriever, which was bred by Lord Harcourt. This strain was one of the three founding lines of golden in the first &#8220;black and brown dog free&#8221; studbook. For a while, you could register a dog based upon appearance, not pedigree, so flat-coats, goldens, and Labs were often born in the same litters! These dogs were registered as flat-coats originally and bred with black flat-coats. They were doing so when the golden was split off the flat-coat in 1911. After 1911, they had several litters in which black puppies were registered as flat-coats and the yellows. The blacks more than likely carried yellow genes.</p>
<p>However, the Culham dogs were very dark, much darker than most modern goldens and darker than any of the yellow flat-coats I&#8217;ve seen, so my guess is Don of Gerwn is main the source for the yellow color. His grandsire was said to be &#8220;cream-colored,&#8221; which meant light gold at the time. I&#8217;ve seen photos and paintings of Don. He&#8217;s got lots of gold shadings on his really thick ruff. He&#8217;s a liver dog, but he&#8217;s definitely got some gold in him. He won one of the first International Retriever trials, and he became a heavily used stud in both flat-coats and goldens. This was in the early 1900&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-384021</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-384021</guid>
		<description>I know how true this is. I&#039;m a flattie owner myself. With a wonderful &#039;Teenage&#039; boy who just loves people, but, I&#039;ve run up against people who are scared of him because he&#039;s a male black dog. I&#039;ve had an instance at the local high school at a football game, I was asked to take him away from the little children; even though I know that he is perfect with little kids. He just stands there and lets them pet him, or he will lick them. But he&#039;s NEVER been aggressive. 

In fact, he&#039;s sweeter then the female flattie we lost about two months ago. Cancer as well. 

I also have a black cat, who is a little monster. She was a rescue. Just like every other cat we have was. We had one cat who was dumped off at a farm with a little of three kittens, the kittens found homes, but since she was mostly black no one wanted her. I begged my parents, and she turned out to be the best cat we ever had. Hunter yet indoor kitty. She would follow me around just waiting for affection, she was my shadow and companion. 

To me, black means nothing, I look at the animals personality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know how true this is. I&#8217;m a flattie owner myself. With a wonderful &#8216;Teenage&#8217; boy who just loves people, but, I&#8217;ve run up against people who are scared of him because he&#8217;s a male black dog. I&#8217;ve had an instance at the local high school at a football game, I was asked to take him away from the little children; even though I know that he is perfect with little kids. He just stands there and lets them pet him, or he will lick them. But he&#8217;s NEVER been aggressive. </p>
<p>In fact, he&#8217;s sweeter then the female flattie we lost about two months ago. Cancer as well. </p>
<p>I also have a black cat, who is a little monster. She was a rescue. Just like every other cat we have was. We had one cat who was dumped off at a farm with a little of three kittens, the kittens found homes, but since she was mostly black no one wanted her. I begged my parents, and she turned out to be the best cat we ever had. Hunter yet indoor kitty. She would follow me around just waiting for affection, she was my shadow and companion. </p>
<p>To me, black means nothing, I look at the animals personality.</p>
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		<title>By: shawnnie</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-239693</link>
		<dc:creator>shawnnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-239693</guid>
		<description>When I started &quot;shopping&quot; for a kitten two plus years ago I had so many choices.  But there was a little black kitten with a bent and scarred ear that would call out to me when I came into the cat room.  I noticed that when people came into the cat room they just walked right on by her cage.  I thought she was cute and I wondered what would happen to her if I didn&#039;t take her.  I waited a week and came back and she was still there while others of a lighter variety were off to new homes.    It weighed heavy on my soul what might happen to her if I didn&#039;t take her, so I did.  And glad that I did.  I wonder if there is a nondiscriminating factor at play in peoples choices--I have noticed that it is more difficult to read the expression on my cats face because she is black.  The light needs to be good otherwise she can look like two eyes.  I notice the same thing in black dogs.  Maybe people choose other than black because they cannot &quot;read&quot; the animal as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I started &#8220;shopping&#8221; for a kitten two plus years ago I had so many choices.  But there was a little black kitten with a bent and scarred ear that would call out to me when I came into the cat room.  I noticed that when people came into the cat room they just walked right on by her cage.  I thought she was cute and I wondered what would happen to her if I didn&#8217;t take her.  I waited a week and came back and she was still there while others of a lighter variety were off to new homes.    It weighed heavy on my soul what might happen to her if I didn&#8217;t take her, so I did.  And glad that I did.  I wonder if there is a nondiscriminating factor at play in peoples choices&#8212;I have noticed that it is more difficult to read the expression on my cats face because she is black.  The light needs to be good otherwise she can look like two eyes.  I notice the same thing in black dogs.  Maybe people choose other than black because they cannot &#8220;read&#8221; the animal as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-239158</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-239158</guid>
		<description>Yep ... it was shot at Christie&#039;s old place in the redwoods north of SF, where the sun rarely shines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep &#8230; it was shot at Christie&#8217;s old place in the redwoods north of SF, where the sun rarely shines.</p>
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		<title>By: Border Wars - Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-239149</link>
		<dc:creator>Border Wars - Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-239149</guid>
		<description>@ ramin - 

Of course the ideal photo is neither under nor overexposed and has detail in the deep blacks and bright whites. My point is that if you&#039;re going to risk error, aim for overexposure, especially when you&#039;re using a fast shutter speed and you don&#039;t have nearly the number of choices of aperture (you&#039;re likely going to be moving in +/- full stops). 

It&#039;s a simple matter of weighing blown out whites versus informationless blacks, and since you care more about the dog than the ground, or the greater share of coat than any white highlights, lean towards exposing more versus less.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://tinyurl.com/3dn9qd&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Underexposed photos&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt; of dark dogs in harsh situations are boring.

The several stops overexposed photo I linked to the first time is still nice to look at, frame, whatever. The underexposed photo in this comment has no details in the face and is boring, despite the background being perfectly exposed (and perhaps in better focus).

Both are really nasty conditions, bright sunlight, colorless dogs and backgrounds (black and white pool / on white concrete in front of a white wall. Neither are properly exposed. But I&#039;ll take the one that is several stops over versus several stops under any day.

The other issue is trying to learn by trial and error how the metering system in your camera works, and which one to use and where to aim it.

Now, Gina&#039;s picture on this post is excellently focused and exposed, but she also has what I imagine was an overcast low contrast day (ideal) that are so common in the bay area.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ ramin - </p>
<p>Of course the ideal photo is neither under nor overexposed and has detail in the deep blacks and bright whites. My point is that if you&#8217;re going to risk error, aim for overexposure, especially when you&#8217;re using a fast shutter speed and you don&#8217;t have nearly the number of choices of aperture (you&#8217;re likely going to be moving in +/- full stops). </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a simple matter of weighing blown out whites versus informationless blacks, and since you care more about the dog than the ground, or the greater share of coat than any white highlights, lean towards exposing more versus less.<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/3dn9qd" rel="nofollow">Underexposed photos</a><a> of dark dogs in harsh situations are boring.</a></p>
<p>The several stops overexposed photo I linked to the first time is still nice to look at, frame, whatever. The underexposed photo in this comment has no details in the face and is boring, despite the background being perfectly exposed (and perhaps in better focus).</p>
<p>Both are really nasty conditions, bright sunlight, colorless dogs and backgrounds (black and white pool / on white concrete in front of a white wall. Neither are properly exposed. But I&#8217;ll take the one that is several stops over versus several stops under any day.</p>
<p>The other issue is trying to learn by trial and error how the metering system in your camera works, and which one to use and where to aim it.</p>
<p>Now, Gina&#8217;s picture on this post is excellently focused and exposed, but she also has what I imagine was an overcast low contrast day (ideal) that are so common in the bay area.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Fox</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-238951</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-238951</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve volunteered at our open admission rural county shelter since it opened over three years ago and have never noticed or heard from staff that there is any particular issue with black dogs not getting adopted due to color. 

Like in many places, people love those labs, which tend to be black. 

The border collies generally are out the door within a week and are usually mostly black. Ditto the kelpie mixes.

Black pits with &quot;boston terrier&quot; type markings? Seem to be extra attractive. 

Mostly black rotties? No problem. 

Recent border collie/corgi cross, all black (Think border collie head and body on corgie legs. You had to see him....)? Flew out the door within three days.

I really think that it is a kind of urban myths, one of those things &quot;everyone knows&quot;. And probably a sub-conscious excuse for not making an effort to get dogs adopted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve volunteered at our open admission rural county shelter since it opened over three years ago and have never noticed or heard from staff that there is any particular issue with black dogs not getting adopted due to color. </p>
<p>Like in many places, people love those labs, which tend to be black. </p>
<p>The border collies generally are out the door within a week and are usually mostly black. Ditto the kelpie mixes.</p>
<p>Black pits with &#8220;boston terrier&#8221; type markings? Seem to be extra attractive. </p>
<p>Mostly black rotties? No problem. </p>
<p>Recent border collie/corgi cross, all black (Think border collie head and body on corgie legs. You had to see him&#8230;.)? Flew out the door within three days.</p>
<p>I really think that it is a kind of urban myths, one of those things &#8220;everyone knows&#8221;. And probably a sub-conscious excuse for not making an effort to get dogs adopted.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-238936</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-238936</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve definitely seen this phenomenon, especially in the shelter with larger dogs.  People do find them scary, their faces don&#039;t stand out as much and they don&#039;t have any kind of pattern or markings to make them stand out.  It&#039;s not so much that people dislike the black dogs, but rather they tend to be more drawn to colors.

I have a wonderful big black dog and probably always will, because I&#039;ve grown to love them.  Especially when they get older and start to get white around the muzzle and other places.  So handsome!

For the unskilled point-and-shoot photographer I suggest taking pictures outdoors on a cloudy day or in the late afternoon, in other words avoid bright sun/dark shadows.  A colorful background/environment helps, rather than neutral tones.  Something like green shrubs, flowers etc. seem to help.  And get close enough to show some detail on the face and eyes, sometimes a head shot is better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve definitely seen this phenomenon, especially in the shelter with larger dogs.  People do find them scary, their faces don&#8217;t stand out as much and they don&#8217;t have any kind of pattern or markings to make them stand out.  It&#8217;s not so much that people dislike the black dogs, but rather they tend to be more drawn to colors.</p>
<p>I have a wonderful big black dog and probably always will, because I&#8217;ve grown to love them.  Especially when they get older and start to get white around the muzzle and other places.  So handsome!</p>
<p>For the unskilled point-and-shoot photographer I suggest taking pictures outdoors on a cloudy day or in the late afternoon, in other words avoid bright sun/dark shadows.  A colorful background/environment helps, rather than neutral tones.  Something like green shrubs, flowers etc. seem to help.  And get close enough to show some detail on the face and eyes, sometimes a head shot is better.</p>
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		<title>By: Georg</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-238877</link>
		<dc:creator>Georg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-238877</guid>
		<description>This post makes me happy I have two black dogs. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post makes me happy I have two black dogs. :)</p>
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		<title>By: emily</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/comment-page-1/#comment-238807</link>
		<dc:creator>emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/03/06/bbd/#comment-238807</guid>
		<description>I think there stata will be there, but as I mentioned for areas where black genetics are common and so black dogs are commen enough to form an excess.  I have certainly walked through shelters with row upon row of black dogs.  But for actual statistics I believe there is some stuff on JAAWS.  These days it is more often the pit mix that is the excess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there stata will be there, but as I mentioned for areas where black genetics are common and so black dogs are commen enough to form an excess.  I have certainly walked through shelters with row upon row of black dogs.  But for actual statistics I believe there is some stuff on JAAWS.  These days it is more often the pit mix that is the excess.</p>
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