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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;It&#8217;s not about the money&#8217; and the cost of saying goodbye</title>
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		<title>By: Colorado Transplant</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-223008</link>
		<dc:creator>Colorado Transplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-223008</guid>
		<description>We like to think we are superior to other mammalian species so that we can have the advantage over other species.

Long time ago, it seems to me, some people did not know that animals have reasoning power, do not communicate with other animals, have not too many emotions, and lack a lot of memory power.  

That was so we could either boss them around or eat them without too much guilt.  After all, weren&#039;t animals put on this earth for man&#039;s convenience?

Hard to believe now--but that is how I remember it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We like to think we are superior to other mammalian species so that we can have the advantage over other species.</p>
<p>Long time ago, it seems to me, some people did not know that animals have reasoning power, do not communicate with other animals, have not too many emotions, and lack a lot of memory power.  </p>
<p>That was so we could either boss them around or eat them without too much guilt.  After all, weren&#8217;t animals put on this earth for man&#8217;s convenience?</p>
<p>Hard to believe now&#8212;but that is how I remember it.</p>
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		<title>By: deb</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222559</link>
		<dc:creator>deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 04:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222559</guid>
		<description>Well said, Lis.
   My responsibility is solely to the other species I have chosen for whatever reason my animal species made the deciding factor in bringing them into my home. They are my first consideration. 
   And I am bloody sick of this differentiation between Homo sapiens and other mammalian species. Folks, I hate to be the one to tell you, but we are animals! We are not one whit superior to any other life form on this planet, in spite of what our religious teachings lead us to believe or our communication and technological skills convince us to the contrary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Lis.<br />
   My responsibility is solely to the other species I have chosen for whatever reason my animal species made the deciding factor in bringing them into my home. They are my first consideration.<br />
   And I am bloody sick of this differentiation between Homo sapiens and other mammalian species. Folks, I hate to be the one to tell you, but we are animals! We are not one whit superior to any other life form on this planet, in spite of what our religious teachings lead us to believe or our communication and technological skills convince us to the contrary.</p>
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		<title>By: Lis</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222352</link>
		<dc:creator>Lis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222352</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And surely, there are some huge ethical dilemmas in considering spending large amounts of money on one very ill pet, when thousands of healthy ones are euthanized in shelters.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t have a personal relationship with, or personal obligations to, those other animals. I donate and do what I can, but I have a different level of obligation to my own pets, who share my home and fill my life. I agree with most of the rest of what you said, but the animals in shelters because others couldn&#039;t, or simply didn&#039;t, keep them, is not a factor in how far it&#039;s appropriate for me to go for &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; pets. Just like the starving children in Africa are not reasons for sister to keep my niece on  short rations or dress her from Goodwill rather than buying her nice, age-appropriate clothes that fit properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And surely, there are some huge ethical dilemmas in considering spending large amounts of money on one very ill pet, when thousands of healthy ones are euthanized in shelters.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a personal relationship with, or personal obligations to, those other animals. I donate and do what I can, but I have a different level of obligation to my own pets, who share my home and fill my life. I agree with most of the rest of what you said, but the animals in shelters because others couldn&#8217;t, or simply didn&#8217;t, keep them, is not a factor in how far it&#8217;s appropriate for me to go for <i>my</i> pets. Just like the starving children in Africa are not reasons for sister to keep my niece on  short rations or dress her from Goodwill rather than buying her nice, age-appropriate clothes that fit properly.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222326</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 21:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222326</guid>
		<description>Kimmie ... it&#039;s very naive to think these decisions aren&#039;t made economically, at all levels, for animals AND humans. That&#039;s what acutaries are for, an entire profession to assess risk and plan for it. 

A few years ago, my (then-37-year-old) brother contracted &lt;a href=http://www.webmd.com/brain/tc/guillain-barre-syndrome-topic-overview rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Guillain-Barré Syndrome&lt;/a&gt;. He spent weeks in the hospital near death and months in rehab learning to  balance and walk again. His medical bill was close to three-quarters of a million dollars. (And it continues to add up, since he&#039;s on expensive meds for life as a result, on top of being a Type I diabetic.)

He used to joke -- hey, if you don&#039;t laugh, you&#039;d cry -- about the insurance company sending a hit man after him to save them money. In his &quot;joke&quot; version, he&#039;d open the door and there&#039;d by a guy with a silencer on his gun.

&quot;Sorry, pal, but I&#039;m from your health insurance company,&quot; would say the hit man. &quot;Nothing personal, ya know?&quot;

And ya know, if the insurance companies could get away with it, I think they might send hit men out after all.

As for &quot;dumb,&quot; I&#039;d bet you $100 that Mr. Yardley meant &quot;unable to speak.&quot; But yes, it IS an archaic term, which is why the &lt;a href=http://www.ddfl.org/whoweare.htm rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Denver Dumb Friends League&lt;/a&gt; -- foundedin 1910 -- once explored changing its name. They realized their name recognition in Denver was very, very high, though, so they left their name alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimmie &#8230; it&#8217;s very naive to think these decisions aren&#8217;t made economically, at all levels, for animals AND humans. That&#8217;s what acutaries are for, an entire profession to assess risk and plan for it. </p>
<p>A few years ago, my (then-37-year-old) brother contracted <a href=http://www.webmd.com/brain/tc/guillain-barre-syndrome-topic-overview rel="nofollow">Guillain-Barré Syndrome</a>. He spent weeks in the hospital near death and months in rehab learning to  balance and walk again. His medical bill was close to three-quarters of a million dollars. (And it continues to add up, since he&#8217;s on expensive meds for life as a result, on top of being a Type I diabetic.)</p>
<p>He used to joke &#8212; hey, if you don&#8217;t laugh, you&#8217;d cry &#8212; about the insurance company sending a hit man after him to save them money. In his &#8220;joke&#8221; version, he&#8217;d open the door and there&#8217;d by a guy with a silencer on his gun.</p>
<p>&#8220;Sorry, pal, but I&#8217;m from your health insurance company,&#8221; would say the hit man. &#8220;Nothing personal, ya know?&#8221;</p>
<p>And ya know, if the insurance companies could get away with it, I think they might send hit men out after all.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;dumb,&#8221; I&#8217;d bet you $100 that Mr. Yardley meant &#8220;unable to speak.&#8221; But yes, it IS an archaic term, which is why the <a href=http://www.ddfl.org/whoweare.htm rel="nofollow">Denver Dumb Friends League</a> &#8212; foundedin 1910 &#8212; once explored changing its name. They realized their name recognition in Denver was very, very high, though, so they left their name alone.</p>
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		<title>By: mountain kimmie</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222291</link>
		<dc:creator>mountain kimmie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 20:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222291</guid>
		<description>I just have to chime in here on Mr. Yardley&#039;s comment &quot;How much value can we assign to a creature who is both a dumb animal and a cherished friend . . .&quot;.  Of course he also went on to call the dumb animal a member of the family, etc.  I just think &quot;dumb animal&quot; is a rather out-dated term.  I don&#039;t consider my pets &quot;stupid&quot;, even if they don&#039;t have the same level of (or kind of) intelligence as I have.  And if we take the definition of &quot;dumb&quot; as the inability to speak, let us not forget that our pets DO communicate with us, even if they don&#039;t usually use human language.

The very fact that he used this term, and raised the question as to &quot;value&quot; (presumably monetary value in this context) of a &quot;member of the family&quot; creeps me out a bit.  We all have to make hard decisions sometimes, and if we just don&#039;t have the money, we just don&#039;t have the money.  But to suggest that those decisions should be based on some kind of financial analysis?  ewwwwwwwww.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just have to chime in here on Mr. Yardley&#8217;s comment &#8220;How much value can we assign to a creature who is both a dumb animal and a cherished friend . . .&#8221;.  Of course he also went on to call the dumb animal a member of the family, etc.  I just think &#8220;dumb animal&#8221; is a rather out-dated term.  I don&#8217;t consider my pets &#8220;stupid&#8221;, even if they don&#8217;t have the same level of (or kind of) intelligence as I have.  And if we take the definition of &#8220;dumb&#8221; as the inability to speak, let us not forget that our pets DO communicate with us, even if they don&#8217;t usually use human language.</p>
<p>The very fact that he used this term, and raised the question as to &#8220;value&#8221; (presumably monetary value in this context) of a &#8220;member of the family&#8221; creeps me out a bit.  We all have to make hard decisions sometimes, and if we just don&#8217;t have the money, we just don&#8217;t have the money.  But to suggest that those decisions should be based on some kind of financial analysis?  ewwwwwwwww.</p>
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		<title>By: emily</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222240</link>
		<dc:creator>emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222240</guid>
		<description>Indeed, hornblower.  You had me nodding along until the idea that one&#039;s pet is interchangeable with every other animal in need.  Yes, money is a factor, quality of life is a factor, but these are decisions based on our relationship with the animal.  Otherwise we end up right back at &#039;why help animals at all when their are people in need?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, hornblower.  You had me nodding along until the idea that one&#8217;s pet is interchangeable with every other animal in need.  Yes, money is a factor, quality of life is a factor, but these are decisions based on our relationship with the animal.  Otherwise we end up right back at &#8216;why help animals at all when their are people in need?&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222204</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222204</guid>
		<description>&quot;And surely, there are some huge ethical dilemmas in considering spending large amounts of money on one very ill pet, when thousands of healthy ones are euthanized in shelters.&quot;

There are some huge ethical decisions any time you spend money on anything. And anthropomorphization has nothing to to do with how I care for my animals, and the decisions I make on their behalf. I &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; they&#039;re animals, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And surely, there are some huge ethical dilemmas in considering spending large amounts of money on one very ill pet, when thousands of healthy ones are euthanized in shelters.&#8221;</p>
<p>There are some huge ethical decisions any time you spend money on anything. And anthropomorphization has nothing to to do with how I care for my animals, and the decisions I make on their behalf. I <em>know</em> they&#8217;re animals, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: hornblower</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222180</link>
		<dc:creator>hornblower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/#comment-222180</guid>
		<description>I think money IS always an issue. It&#039;s silly to pretend otherwise. It&#039;s an issue in human health care too. 

There always will be something more you could do. How about a kidney transplant for your CRF cat? It&#039;s about 10K. If you don&#039;t live near the cities where they&#039;re done, well you just need to add a few grand for transportation and your accomodation while you take kitty there &amp; back. I know they&#039;ve been done but I haven&#039;t actually met anyone who has gone that route; as a CRF cat owner, all I know are people who do the &#039;common&#039; treatments of restricted diets, phosphorus binders, sub q fluids and their cats gradually got worse and either died or were euthanized. Nobody yet says &quot;gee, you should have gone to such and such a place and got her a kidney transplant. Did you even look into it?&quot; But soon, I imagine that is exactly what will be said. Where will it end? Are we making pet ownership so expensive that  only millionaires will be able to afford to have pets?  

I think this obsession about our pets receiving the &#039;best&#039; medical care is a symptom of the growing anthropomorphization in our culture. I believe in providing good preventative care, good nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. I do not believe in high cost interventions &amp; I do not like how so many people guilt other pet owners for not pursuing expensive treatments. It&#039;s become a status symbol now to brag about the size of our vet bills and how willingly we pay them. 

IMO, the more mature the animal, and the more serious the disease, the less costly interventions should be employed and the focus should be on palliative care. 

I see huge problems ahead if vets continue on the path of becoming increasingly snotty about euthanizing seriously ill pets because the owners do not want to incur extreme costs. 

And surely, there are some huge ethical dilemmas in considering spending large amounts of money on one very ill pet, when thousands of healthy ones are euthanized in shelters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think money IS always an issue. It&#8217;s silly to pretend otherwise. It&#8217;s an issue in human health care too. </p>
<p>There always will be something more you could do. How about a kidney transplant for your CRF cat? It&#8217;s about 10K. If you don&#8217;t live near the cities where they&#8217;re done, well you just need to add a few grand for transportation and your accomodation while you take kitty there &amp; back. I know they&#8217;ve been done but I haven&#8217;t actually met anyone who has gone that route; as a CRF cat owner, all I know are people who do the &#8216;common&#8217; treatments of restricted diets, phosphorus binders, sub q fluids and their cats gradually got worse and either died or were euthanized. Nobody yet says &#8220;gee, you should have gone to such and such a place and got her a kidney transplant. Did you even look into it?&#8221; But soon, I imagine that is exactly what will be said. Where will it end? Are we making pet ownership so expensive that  only millionaires will be able to afford to have pets?  </p>
<p>I think this obsession about our pets receiving the &#8216;best&#8217; medical care is a symptom of the growing anthropomorphization in our culture. I believe in providing good preventative care, good nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. I do not believe in high cost interventions &amp; I do not like how so many people guilt other pet owners for not pursuing expensive treatments. It&#8217;s become a status symbol now to brag about the size of our vet bills and how willingly we pay them. </p>
<p>IMO, the more mature the animal, and the more serious the disease, the less costly interventions should be employed and the focus should be on palliative care. </p>
<p>I see huge problems ahead if vets continue on the path of becoming increasingly snotty about euthanizing seriously ill pets because the owners do not want to incur extreme costs. </p>
<p>And surely, there are some huge ethical dilemmas in considering spending large amounts of money on one very ill pet, when thousands of healthy ones are euthanized in shelters.</p>
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		<title>By: 2CatMom</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222178</link>
		<dc:creator>2CatMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If you have a vet that you trust, I don&#039;t think its inappropriate to ask her &quot;what would you do in these circumstances.&quot;  That may the best way to determine if you should do more.

A really good vet isn&#039;t going to recommend treatment if she believes that the animal is suffering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have a vet that you trust, I don&#8217;t think its inappropriate to ask her &#8220;what would you do in these circumstances.&#8221;  That may the best way to determine if you should do more.</p>
<p>A really good vet isn&#8217;t going to recommend treatment if she believes that the animal is suffering.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2008/02/03/its-not-about-the-money-and-the-cost-of-saying-goodbye/comment-page-1/#comment-222161</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ve never been a big believer in extraordinary measures to save pets.  Of course, some circumstances demand it.  However, when faced with the choice of chemo/radiation for a cat with cancer who clearly wanted to die in peace at home, there was no wavering on my part. It all depends on the creature and the situation.  Money is always a factor; but hopefully, not the only one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never been a big believer in extraordinary measures to save pets.  Of course, some circumstances demand it.  However, when faced with the choice of chemo/radiation for a cat with cancer who clearly wanted to die in peace at home, there was no wavering on my part. It all depends on the creature and the situation.  Money is always a factor; but hopefully, not the only one.</p>
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