Comments on: Who’s to blame for the mess in the L.A. shelter? http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/ Blogging by a team of pet-care experts led by Dr. Marty Becker. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:12:08 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Lynn http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200495 Lynn Mon, 31 Dec 2007 03:04:02 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200495 So right, 2CatMom. If anyone would like to post the link to a shelter's statistics, I'd be happy to have them. I'm compiling stats. [Big Brother's watching you, Shelter Director!] So right, 2CatMom.

If anyone would like to post the link to a shelter’s statistics, I’d be happy to have them. I’m compiling stats.

[Big Brother’s watching you, Shelter Director!]

]]> By: 2CatMom http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200369 2CatMom Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:22:50 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200369 Ooops - that first figure above should read 95%. Ooops - that first figure above should read 95%.

]]> By: 2CatMom http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200366 2CatMom Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:21:33 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200366 I really don't understand what all the semantical arguments about whether 85% or 100% equals No Kill. And frankly, I'm not worried about a shelter that hits 95% somehow then deciding to kill the other 5% because they have met the Winograd goal. A shelter at 95% (or 100% on a given day)knows what the end objective is - no animal is killed unless it is unredeemably vicious or in unremitting pain. It would be much more useful for all of us to put our energies toward working with shelters that are killing 40%, 50%, 70% of their animals. And there are lots of shelters out there whose kill rates are appalling. I really don’t understand what all the semantical arguments about whether 85% or 100% equals No Kill. And frankly, I’m not worried about a shelter that hits 95% somehow then deciding to kill the other 5% because they have met the Winograd goal. A shelter at 95% (or 100% on a given day)knows what the end objective is - no animal is killed unless it is unredeemably vicious or in unremitting pain.

It would be much more useful for all of us to put our energies toward working with shelters that are killing 40%, 50%, 70% of their animals. And there are lots of shelters out there whose kill rates are appalling.

]]> By: Carol PW http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200336 Carol PW Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:02:59 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200336 Lynn - Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services: http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/animals/index.shtml Lynn - Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services:

http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/animals/index.shtml

]]> By: Lynn http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200298 Lynn Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:58:16 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200298 Whoops - Sally, I meant to say in the preceding post: What does the acronym VDACS mean? [I have the shelter name from your earlier post.] Whoops - Sally, I meant to say in the preceding post: What does the acronym VDACS mean? [I have the shelter name from your earlier post.]

]]> By: Lynn http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200296 Lynn Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:56:17 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200296 Sally: I went to VDACS.com and that produced a website that listed all kinds of businesses. Ironically the first one was for a stripper. I then googled Virginia and the results were not as forthcoming as i would have liked. Can you give me the precise name of the shelter? [No acronyms, please.] Thanks. Sally:

I went to VDACS.com and that produced a website that listed all kinds of businesses. Ironically the first one was for a stripper. I then googled Virginia and the results were not as forthcoming as i would have liked. Can you give me the precise name of the shelter? [No acronyms, please.]

Thanks.

]]> By: Sally http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200280 Sally Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:26:50 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200280 I'm not "from" a shelter, but I live near the Charlottesville Albemarle SPCA in Virginia. It's the community, open-admission shelter for the city of Charlottesville and the County of Albemarle in Virginia. CASPCA has the animal control contract for the community. Last rate I saw for them was 92% live exit (this includes adoptions, transfers to rescue, return to owners, and I believe the TNR cats and the barn cat program.) They are an exceptionally good shelter. In Virginia, shelter statistics are online at VDACS. I believe it's Tompkins County that has hit 93% live exit. I’m not “from” a shelter, but I live near the Charlottesville Albemarle SPCA in Virginia. It’s the community, open-admission shelter for the city of Charlottesville and the County of Albemarle in Virginia. CASPCA has the animal control contract for the community.

Last rate I saw for them was 92% live exit (this includes adoptions, transfers to rescue, return to owners, and I believe the TNR cats and the barn cat program.)

They are an exceptionally good shelter.

In Virginia, shelter statistics are online at VDACS.

I believe it’s Tompkins County that has hit 93% live exit.

]]> By: Lynn http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200237 Lynn Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:20:51 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200237 Sally and Lis: Let me make this clear: I never said that anyone created daily rates. If you read my all my entries in this thread you should see that I was presenting a case to demonstrate that it IS possible ON A GIVEN DAY to not kill a single animal, in which case the rate FOR THAT DAY would be 100%. Now you know and I know that over the course of many days, 100% is not sustainable. But the point I was making is that it is POSSIBLE. Not likely, but POSSIBLE. Read the entire thread. Let’s not make this thread all about numbers. It’s the goal that counts: the goal is to NOT kill any animal unless it is diseased or injured beyond hope or if it is so vicious that it cannot be rehabilitated. Sally, tell us, if you will, which shelter you are from and the link to the rate history [if available to the public]. With rates as exceptional as those your facility needs to be given a pat on the back. Sally and Lis:

Let me make this clear: I never said that anyone created daily rates. If you read my all my entries in this thread you should see that I was presenting a case to demonstrate that it IS possible ON A GIVEN DAY to not kill a single animal, in which case the rate FOR THAT DAY would be 100%. Now you know and I know that over the course of many days, 100% is not sustainable. But the point I was making is that it is POSSIBLE. Not likely, but POSSIBLE. Read the entire thread.

Let’s not make this thread all about numbers. It’s the goal that counts: the goal is to NOT kill any animal unless it is diseased or injured beyond hope or if it is so vicious that it cannot be rehabilitated.

Sally, tell us, if you will, which shelter you are from and the link to the rate history [if available to the public]. With rates as exceptional as those your facility needs to be given a pat on the back.

]]> By: Lis http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200163 Lis Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:25:01 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200163 <i>I’m sure that if NW uses the 90-95% in his blog he’s basing his estimate on the assumption that some animals will be killed [for humane reasons] on EVERY day of the week.</i> On what do you base that assumption, Lynn? It seems a strained and bizarre reading, to me. Animals are killed in most shelters every day now, because the kill rates are so high. In <i>Redemption</i>, NW does make it clear that he's talking about the annual average. Where are you getting the idea that he expects that annual avarage to be matched every day of the week, with "extrra" killing to prevent the saved rate from rising higher than than? I’m sure that if NW uses the 90-95% in his blog he’s basing his estimate on the assumption that some animals will be killed [for humane reasons] on EVERY day of the week.

On what do you base that assumption, Lynn? It seems a strained and bizarre reading, to me. Animals are killed in most shelters every day now, because the kill rates are so high. In Redemption, NW does make it clear that he’s talking about the annual average. Where are you getting the idea that he expects that annual avarage to be matched every day of the week, with “extrra” killing to prevent the saved rate from rising higher than than?

]]> By: Sally http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/comment-page-2/#comment-200135 Sally Sun, 30 Dec 2007 13:25:59 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/12/27/whos-to-blame-for-the-mess-in-the-la-shelter/#comment-200135 Lynn, I don't think NW assumes that animals will be PTS every day of the week. Above 90% is an estimate, not a daily goal. I've never read his writings to imply that daily euthanasia in a specific shelter will always occur. The % he talks about is the average that's roughly about as high as you can get - around 92-93% seems to be where they are topping off in practice. I'm near a 92% Winograd-inspired shelter and I can assure you they do not euthanize when they hit 92% for a specific day. They euthanize "vicious and irredeemably suffering" animals - more some days, less others - but they euthanize very few overall. Lynn, I don’t think NW assumes that animals will be PTS every day of the week. Above 90% is an estimate, not a daily goal. I’ve never read his writings to imply that daily euthanasia in a specific shelter will always occur. The % he talks about is the average that’s roughly about as high as you can get - around 92-93% seems to be where they are topping off in practice.

I’m near a 92% Winograd-inspired shelter and I can assure you they do not euthanize when they hit 92% for a specific day. They euthanize “vicious and irredeemably suffering” animals - more some days, less others - but they euthanize very few overall.

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