Comments on: Veterinary Medicine: How much do you want to know? http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/ Blogging by a team of pet-care experts led by Dr. Marty Becker. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:39:02 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Barbara A. Albright http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-233688 Barbara A. Albright Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:16:32 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-233688 The cost of miracles OR sometimes the cost of F-R-A-U-D !! How does the average pet owner make informed decisions regarding treatment, diagnostics, and the like without honest, ethical, professional advice? The public is completely reliant upon the standards and ethics by the American Veterinary Medical Association, state licensure, and the "oath" taken upon granting of the DVM degree from a respected university/college. Unfortunately, regulation and removal of the "bad apples" lies within the profession and is virtually non-existent. Until courage develops amongst colleages and/or legal recourse becomes obtainable with true penalty; all the average person can do is speak up, report abuse, and be left in the devastation of emotional and financial consequences. There are multitude of views to the advancement of medicine & ultimately trust and ethics are the needed guide "Pocket's Story from NH" or http://walnut-hill.bravehost.com The cost of miracles OR sometimes the cost of
F-R-A-U-D !! How does the average pet owner make informed decisions regarding treatment, diagnostics, and the like without honest, ethical, professional advice? The public is completely reliant upon the standards and ethics by the American Veterinary Medical Association, state licensure, and the “oath” taken upon granting of the DVM degree from a respected university/college.

Unfortunately, regulation and removal of the “bad apples” lies within the profession and is virtually non-existent. Until courage develops amongst colleages and/or legal recourse becomes obtainable with true penalty; all the average person can do is speak up, report abuse, and be left in the devastation of emotional and financial consequences. There are multitude of views to the advancement of medicine & ultimately trust and ethics are the needed guide
“Pocket’s Story from NH” or
http://walnut-hill.bravehost.com

]]> By: Dr. Patty Khuly http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-164263 Dr. Patty Khuly Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:30:54 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-164263 Christie: Wow. You said it so much better than I did--or ever could. Love your style, girl. Christie: Wow. You said it so much better than I did—or ever could. Love your style, girl.

]]> By: Jim Kelly http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-147887 Jim Kelly Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:07:13 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-147887 Avoid blind faith. I lost my beloved Callie to FELV because I did not require my vet to inform me of all the options available for my pets routine care, nor did I verify that they were in fact receiving that veterinary care. I always said do whatever they need as far as tests and vaccinations are needed and assumed that was what was being done. Most of my pets are from feral backgrounds, so I knew enough to ask that they be tested for FIV and FELV prior to any vaccinations being done. Callie was approximately 6 months old when I rescued her, tested negative for both diseases, was spayed and put on rabies, FIV, and FELV vaccination programs. At 20 months of age she went off feed, became somewhat lethargic, and began eating litter. I took her to her vet who did a wellness exam, declared her in excellent health and gave her an "A" on her health report card. He said her symptoms were probably due to a mental problem. I took her to another vet for a second opinion. She was euthanised at a university teaching hospital two weeks later after two blood transfusions failed to reverse her critical anemia that was caused by leukemia. The attending vet at the hospital said that since she came from a feral background, she should have had a second test for FELV six weeks after the first to verify the negative results. My concern turned to my other cats who were also under the care of the same original vet for routine tests and vaccinations. I found that one, who had received Rabies, FIV, and FELV vaccinations for two years, had never been tested for either and was in fact now positive for FELV. A third cat tested negative for FIV, but I found that she had never been tested or vaccinated for FIV. My blind faith that proper veterinary care was being given to my pets by this very pleasant husband and wife vet practice is partially responsible for the loss of Callie and soon to be loss of the other FELV+ cat. She's presently on Interferon and is isolated from the others. With the information available today on the internet, books and publications I know now that proper home care, love, and nutrition is not enough to assure my pets of a long, healthy, and happy life. I must be better informed, and I pray that all pet owners will do the same. Avoid blind faith. I lost my beloved Callie to FELV because I did not require my vet to inform me of all the options available for my pets routine care, nor did I verify that they were in fact receiving that veterinary care. I always said do whatever they need as far as tests and vaccinations are needed and assumed that was what was being done. Most of my pets are from feral backgrounds, so I knew enough to ask that they be tested for FIV and FELV prior to any vaccinations being done. Callie was approximately 6 months old when I rescued her, tested negative for both diseases, was spayed and put on rabies, FIV, and FELV vaccination programs. At 20 months of age she went off feed, became somewhat lethargic, and began eating litter. I took her to her vet who did a wellness exam, declared her in excellent health and gave her an “A” on her health report card. He said her symptoms were probably due to a mental problem. I took her to another vet for a second opinion. She was euthanised at a university teaching hospital two weeks later after two blood transfusions failed to reverse her critical anemia that was caused by leukemia. The attending vet at the hospital said that since she came from a feral background, she should have had a second test for FELV six weeks after the first to verify the negative results.
My concern turned to my other cats who were also under the care of the same original vet for routine tests and vaccinations. I found that one, who had received Rabies, FIV, and FELV vaccinations for two years, had never been tested for either and was in fact now positive for FELV. A third cat tested negative for FIV, but I found that she had never been tested or vaccinated for FIV.
My blind faith that proper veterinary care was being given to my pets by this very pleasant husband and wife vet practice is partially responsible for the loss of Callie and soon to be loss of the other FELV+ cat. She’s presently on Interferon and is isolated from the others.
With the information available today on the internet, books and publications I know now that proper home care, love, and nutrition is not enough to assure my pets of a long, healthy, and happy life. I must be better informed, and I pray that all pet owners will do the same.

]]> By: Daniel Beatty, DVM http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144809 Daniel Beatty, DVM Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:01:42 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144809 Great article and I agree the decision is up to the pet owner. The information needs to be given by the vet and the decision made by the owner as to what they feel is in the best interest of their pet. Making money by diagnosis is actually pretty foreign to vets and I agree with Christie's statement here - "most of the time I see the exact opposite: An almost total lack of interest in tracking down a diagnosis, and the routine administration of antibiotics and some kind of anti-inflammatory (either steroids or, more recently, NSAIDs like Rimadyl)" My evidence for this? 33% of the majority of veterinary clinics income would not come from vaccinations if they actually did push diagnostics. I like most of my holistic vet counterparts have a service oriented fee structure not a product fee structure. Many of the traditional clinics that have gone to the new vaccine protocol or even further and have gone to titering are trying to make up for it by increasing services so I can see where some clients are starting to feel the impact of vets pushing services but in my experience many of the vets are still pushing the cover ups with anti-inflammatories rather than looking for a true diagnosis. There is a fine line however in some cases and this just takes communication between vet and client. There again the vet provides the information and the client asks the questions and makes the decision they feel is right for their pet. So I agree with the comment above by 'Vets are people too' that "most of situations where the client is disgruntled can be avoided by having a good knowledge of how your vet works with you." What he is talking about is communication and with that it is a two way street. Many vets need to learn how to have a better bedside manner so that communicating with them is not so intimidating and/or difficult. Better communication would fix many of these issues that clients have with feeling pushed into services. Just my 2 cents worth! Great article and I agree the decision is up to the pet owner. The information needs to be given by the vet and the decision made by the owner as to what they feel is in the best interest of their pet.

Making money by diagnosis is actually pretty foreign to vets and I agree with Christie’s statement here - “most of the time I see the exact opposite: An almost total lack of interest in tracking down a diagnosis, and the routine administration of antibiotics and some kind of anti-inflammatory (either steroids or, more recently, NSAIDs like Rimadyl)”

My evidence for this? 33% of the majority of veterinary clinics income would not come from vaccinations if they actually did push diagnostics. I like most of my holistic vet counterparts have a service oriented fee structure not a product fee structure. Many of the traditional clinics that have gone to the new vaccine protocol or even further and have gone to titering are trying to make up for it by increasing services so I can see where some clients are starting to feel the impact of vets pushing services but in my experience many of the vets are still pushing the cover ups with anti-inflammatories rather than looking for a true diagnosis.

There is a fine line however in some cases and this just takes communication between vet and client. There again the vet provides the information and the client asks the questions and makes the decision they feel is right for their pet. So I agree with the comment above by ‘Vets are people too’ that “most of situations where the client is disgruntled can be avoided by having a good knowledge of how your vet works with you.” What he is talking about is communication and with that it is a two way street. Many vets need to learn how to have a better bedside manner so that communicating with them is not so intimidating and/or difficult. Better communication would fix many of these issues that clients have with feeling pushed into services.

Just my 2 cents worth!

]]> By: Vets are people too... http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144742 Vets are people too... Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:28:28 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144742 As a veterinarian I feel that people should remember that we vary in our backgrounds, education and general approach as much as any other diverse group of people. I feel for the people who go to a veterinarian that they do not have a working relationship with for a workup on a tough case. However I think that most of situations where the client is disgruntled can be avoided by having a good knowledge of how your vet works with you. To do this...bring your animals in regularly/yearly for rather low cost wellness exams (preferably not yearly over-vaccinations) That way you forge a good working relationship, know what your veterinarian has to offer, know whether they use pressure tactics etc. I work at an emergency clinic that has good vets with somewhat different approaches, but for the patients that need it, I am so glad to have a great range of pain meds, diagnostics capabilities and treatment options. If somebody cannot afford what is at first offered, I readily give them options as long as I do not think the patient is suffering. It is up to the client to stand up for themselves while listening to the vets concerns as well. I of course get frustrate when clients do not take me seriously when I know their animal is dying or suffering and they just want to take it home for their vet to see tomorrow without even some fluids under the skin or pain meds but I know that not all of us use pressure tactics. Be a responsible pet owner and get to know your vets and ask lots of questions. Ask what each test is for and what the treatment options are. But do not look down on those of us that do want to know all that is available to diagnose and treat our loved ones (my dogs are my children). As a veterinarian I feel that people should remember that we vary in our backgrounds, education and general approach as much as any other diverse group of people. I feel for the people who go to a veterinarian that they do not have a working relationship with for a workup on a tough case. However I think that most of situations where the client is disgruntled can be avoided by having a good knowledge of how your vet works with you. To do this…bring your animals in regularly/yearly for rather low cost wellness exams (preferably not yearly over-vaccinations) That way you forge a good working relationship, know what your veterinarian has to offer, know whether they use pressure tactics etc. I work at an emergency clinic that has good vets with somewhat different approaches, but for the patients that need it, I am so glad to have a great range of pain meds, diagnostics capabilities and treatment options. If somebody cannot afford what is at first offered, I readily give them options as long as I do not think the patient is suffering. It is up to the client to stand up for themselves while listening to the vets concerns as well. I of course get frustrate when clients do not take me seriously when I know their animal is dying or suffering and they just want to take it home for their vet to see tomorrow without even some fluids under the skin or pain meds but I know that not all of us use pressure tactics. Be a responsible pet owner and get to know your vets and ask lots of questions. Ask what each test is for and what the treatment options are. But do not look down on those of us that do want to know all that is available to diagnose and treat our loved ones (my dogs are my children).

]]> By: Katherine http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144700 Katherine Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:54:24 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144700 I had a horrible run of kitty cancer. The worst was squamous cell carcinoma, and because I didn't know whether it was cancer or an abscess I put her through horrible mouth surgery that I still regret. I was a lot more conservative with her daughter with lymphoma--perhaps too conservative, perhaps not, but this was a cat who would hide for two weeks if I gave her a pill, and I think that if the vet had kept her overnight without me she would have died of stress. Very highly strung cat. And right now I'm down on any treatment where I'd have to explain it to a person to get them through it. I can't explain to a cat that the feeling awful is going to make her live longer. As for the people dissin' on emergency vets, mine is great. Then again, it seems like every time I'm there I'm sharing the waiting room with the worst pet owners ever. I was there once because I had a kitten with bloody diarrhea, and once because my cat with lymphoma was too miserable to wait until morning for euthanasia. I imagine dealing with people who don't seem to care much that their dog ate an entire cake of rat poison and leave the maid who doesn't speak English to deal with the non-Spanish-speaking vet while they go out to eat and refuse to share their cellphone number would make one a little jaded, but she's wonderful. I had a horrible run of kitty cancer. The worst was squamous cell carcinoma, and because I didn’t know whether it was cancer or an abscess I put her through horrible mouth surgery that I still regret. I was a lot more conservative with her daughter with lymphoma—perhaps too conservative, perhaps not, but this was a cat who would hide for two weeks if I gave her a pill, and I think that if the vet had kept her overnight without me she would have died of stress. Very highly strung cat. And right now I’m down on any treatment where I’d have to explain it to a person to get them through it. I can’t explain to a cat that the feeling awful is going to make her live longer.

As for the people dissin’ on emergency vets, mine is great. Then again, it seems like every time I’m there I’m sharing the waiting room with the worst pet owners ever. I was there once because I had a kitten with bloody diarrhea, and once because my cat with lymphoma was too miserable to wait until morning for euthanasia. I imagine dealing with people who don’t seem to care much that their dog ate an entire cake of rat poison and leave the maid who doesn’t speak English to deal with the non-Spanish-speaking vet while they go out to eat and refuse to share their cellphone number would make one a little jaded, but she’s wonderful.

]]> By: Trudy Jackson http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144537 Trudy Jackson Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:03:22 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144537 I had a cat with cancer of the ear and it was taken off. It then spread down through His body, we didn't know it then, and when i talked to My vet He said something I will never forget. and i always think of it when making these discisions.He said=think of the pet- Does He have quantity or quality of life? If there is no qualiity of life for the pet, it's not fair to keep them alive just for us. I just had another cat that had cancer and a new [My vet was on vacation] vet said I could take Him home and He would probably die in a few weeks. I had Him put to sleep because He wasn't eating good, laying around, no quality of life left. Just a peaceful end. But yes, I always ask all the questions.All of them. I had a cat with cancer of the ear and it was taken off. It then spread down through His body, we didn’t know it then, and when i talked to My vet He said something I will never forget. and i always think of it when making these discisions.He said=think of the pet- Does He have quantity or quality of life? If there is no qualiity of life for the pet, it’s not fair to keep them alive just for us. I just had another cat that had cancer and a new [My vet was on vacation] vet said I could take Him home and He would probably die in a few weeks. I had Him put to sleep because He wasn’t eating good, laying around, no quality of life left. Just a peaceful end.
But yes, I always ask all the questions.All of them.

]]> By: Randi http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144472 Randi Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:18:52 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144472 I am so glad you wrote this. I saw that article on Slate and was mad. Why would someone take a dead dog to a vet? Because they wanted help. I am an adult who can say no if I don't want to pay for something, but I will do what I can to help my dogs. I am so glad you wrote this. I saw that article on Slate and was mad.
Why would someone take a dead dog to a vet?
Because they wanted help.

I am an adult who can say no if I don’t want to pay for something, but I will do what I can to help my dogs.

]]> By: perkysmom http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144397 perkysmom Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:05:37 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144397 I have a 15 year old cat, Sonnyboy, who was diagnosed, May '07, with a large cancerous tumor in his abdominal area. My vet advised against surgery because of his age. When Sonny starts hiding and stops eating, I've been taking him in for a shot which perks him up. So far the shots have lasted about 6 weeks. He is sociable and eating well, but I know the time will come when he won't be able to eat. Watching an animal slowly die is almost as bad having one suddenly die. Some people give up too easily when the animal can still have quality of life. I have a 15 year old cat, Sonnyboy, who was diagnosed, May ‘07, with a large cancerous tumor in his abdominal area. My vet advised against surgery because of his age. When Sonny starts hiding and stops eating, I’ve been taking him in for a shot which perks him up. So far the shots have lasted about 6 weeks. He is sociable and eating well, but I know the time will come when he won’t be able to eat. Watching an animal slowly die is almost as bad having one suddenly die. Some people give up too easily when the animal can still have quality of life.

]]> By: Diana Guerrero http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/comment-page-1/#comment-144326 Diana Guerrero Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:19:10 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/27/veterinary-medicine-how-much-do-you-want-to-know/#comment-144326 I believe options should be given to the pet owner and that it is ultimately their decision. My clients have complained about "guilting" but I haven't had a problem with that but I am a bit more savvy than the average pet owner. That said, when my vet misdiagnosed a tumor and later when it was found to be cancerous--well, I am glad I had a sane friend with me to ask questions and that we took the time to go home to ponder what I would do. I believe I left my body when I heard the diagnosis... As mentioned previously, there is a lot of variety and it depends on the veterinary clinic and the protocol of the facility as to how things seem to be handled. The decision to attempt to remove the cancer was mine. I was devestated because the tumor had grown to a softball size internally. I was also freaked out because this was at a time when I was homeless and didn't have the money for the operation. The surgeon was the best and so I thought I would give it a shot. It took a lot of work to find funds and a lot of effort to seek help from those closest to me--and who loved my dog. My point here is that I understand those who go the extra mile for their animals but I also understand those who can't or don't. Where I live I see the finest of the fine and then those who love their animals but just don't give them what I consider minimal standards of care. At what point do you draw the line? I don't know the answer--and think we are all going to still ponder it for a while. The world of animal care and handling has changed drastically and it is going to take a while for things to level out...will there ever be consistency between veterinary clinics? Probably not. Most are still independent businesses. Ultimately, it is up to the pet owner to educate themselves and find a veterinarian they trust and feel comfortable with--which sounds easy but it isn't always so. People don't always know what to look for in a pet professional and there are so many variables. Opinions from friends and family still hold the weight even though they may be wrong. I see it on a daily basis. Anyway, great topic and comments. I believe options should be given to the pet owner and that it is ultimately their decision.

My clients have complained about “guilting” but I haven’t had a problem with that but I am a bit more savvy than the average pet owner.

That said, when my vet misdiagnosed a tumor and later when it was found to be cancerous—well, I am glad I had a sane friend with me to ask questions and that we took the time to go home to ponder what I would do. I believe I left my body when I heard the diagnosis…

As mentioned previously, there is a lot of variety and it depends on the veterinary clinic and the protocol of the facility as to how things seem to be handled.

The decision to attempt to remove the cancer was mine. I was devestated because the tumor had grown to a softball size internally. I was also freaked out because this was at a time when I was homeless and didn’t have the money for the operation.

The surgeon was the best and so I thought I would give it a shot. It took a lot of work to find funds and a lot of effort to seek help from those closest to me—and who loved my dog.

My point here is that I understand those who go the extra mile for their animals but I also understand those who can’t or don’t.

Where I live I see the finest of the fine and then those who love their animals but just don’t give them what I consider minimal standards of care.

At what point do you draw the line? I don’t know the answer—and think we are all going to still ponder it for a while.

The world of animal care and handling has changed drastically and it is going to take a while for things to level out…will there ever be consistency between veterinary clinics? Probably not. Most are still independent businesses.

Ultimately, it is up to the pet owner to educate themselves and find a veterinarian they trust and feel comfortable with—which sounds easy but it isn’t always so.

People don’t always know what to look for in a pet professional and there are so many variables.

Opinions from friends and family still hold the weight even though they may be wrong. I see it on a daily basis.

Anyway, great topic and comments.

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