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	<title>Comments on: Lawyering up, doggie style</title>
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	<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/</link>
	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts led by Dr. Marty Becker.</description>
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		<title>By: Allyson</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-139277</link>
		<dc:creator>Allyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-139277</guid>
		<description>As the owner of a boxer (who lives within a few miles of where this incident took place!), I&#039;d also like to throw out that there is a great misconception about the breed.  Many people assume boxers are vicious, just from the way they look.  Boxers tend to growl, bark, and jump when they&#039;re playing, so if someone was unaware of that, they might assume the worst.  

That said, I also know that my dog *is* a bit temperamental with other dogs, so I&#039;m always right on top of her if we&#039;re somewhere with other dogs, so that I can quickly intervene if something happens.

Given that there were no injuries to the other dog, I&#039;m guessing that if there was a fight, the owner was able to step in quickly to separate the dogs, so I can&#039;t imagine that this was a situation where the police officer was justified in killing the dog.  Instead, Animal Control should have been called to determine whether or not the dog was a threat to public safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the owner of a boxer (who lives within a few miles of where this incident took place!), I&#8217;d also like to throw out that there is a great misconception about the breed.  Many people assume boxers are vicious, just from the way they look.  Boxers tend to growl, bark, and jump when they&#8217;re playing, so if someone was unaware of that, they might assume the worst.  </p>
<p>That said, I also know that my dog *is* a bit temperamental with other dogs, so I&#8217;m always right on top of her if we&#8217;re somewhere with other dogs, so that I can quickly intervene if something happens.</p>
<p>Given that there were no injuries to the other dog, I&#8217;m guessing that if there was a fight, the owner was able to step in quickly to separate the dogs, so I can&#8217;t imagine that this was a situation where the police officer was justified in killing the dog.  Instead, Animal Control should have been called to determine whether or not the dog was a threat to public safety.</p>
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		<title>By: The OTHER Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-138529</link>
		<dc:creator>The OTHER Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-138529</guid>
		<description>No, it doesn&#039;t.  And I don&#039;t believe that Gina ever even hinted that it does.

But if the clueless owner had kept his dog under control in the first place, the question never would have had to even be asked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it doesn&#8217;t.  And I don&#8217;t believe that Gina ever even hinted that it does.</p>
<p>But if the clueless owner had kept his dog under control in the first place, the question never would have had to even be asked.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard J. (Bernie) Starzewski</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-138519</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard J. (Bernie) Starzewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-138519</guid>
		<description>Pat, I agree wtih everything you said but...

Does that behavior rise to the level of an immediate death sentance?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, I agree wtih everything you said but&#8230;</p>
<p>Does that behavior rise to the level of an immediate death sentance?</p>
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		<title>By: The OTHER Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-138201</link>
		<dc:creator>The OTHER Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-138201</guid>
		<description>I did not in any way, shape or form read that Gina was condoning the police officer&#039;s actions.  What I read was that she was *trying* to emphasize the damage that can result when clueless owners with aggressive dogs don&#039;t keep their dogs under control and away from other dogs.

Suzanne Clothier wrote an article about this entitled &quot;He just wants to say &#039;Hi&#039;&quot;:

http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html

Although her article focuses more on the error of blaming the aggressed-upon dog for reacting defensively to the intrusion, the central point is still this:  A responsible owner does not allow their dog to inappropriately invade the personal space of another dog.

That&#039;s the point I believe Gina was trying to make, and that got lost in the shuffle here.  Just to be clear, I&#039;ll say it again:

*A responsible owner does not allow their dog to inappropriately invade the personal space of another dog.*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not in any way, shape or form read that Gina was condoning the police officer&#8217;s actions.  What I read was that she was *trying* to emphasize the damage that can result when clueless owners with aggressive dogs don&#8217;t keep their dogs under control and away from other dogs.</p>
<p>Suzanne Clothier wrote an article about this entitled &#8220;He just wants to say &#8216;Hi&#8217;&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html</a></p>
<p>Although her article focuses more on the error of blaming the aggressed-upon dog for reacting defensively to the intrusion, the central point is still this:  A responsible owner does not allow their dog to inappropriately invade the personal space of another dog.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the point I believe Gina was trying to make, and that got lost in the shuffle here.  Just to be clear, I&#8217;ll say it again:</p>
<p>*A responsible owner does not allow their dog to inappropriately invade the personal space of another dog.*</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard J. (Bernie) Starzewski</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-138187</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard J. (Bernie) Starzewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-138187</guid>
		<description>Im afraid I have to agree with Janine here...

Yes, the agressor dog was in the wrong.   But as you pointed out, this happens all the time.  Should deadly force be used - all the time?  I think not.

The dogs were seperated and no longer fighting (if that is what it was).  The officer did NOT have the authority to act as judge jury and executioner at that point.  A ticket for failure to control the dog was certainly in order or some such citation but NOT instant death!

I have become increasingly concerned with what I see as excessive force on the part of police followed by an all too automatic vindication of the officer(s).

Here in Green Bay we recently had an incident where a guy who had in fact been misbehaving (drinking for certain) and ran from police and was shot THIRTYSEVEN TIMES when he got out of his car and took out his cell phone.  A crowded nightclub was in the line of fire and a bouncer working there was shot twice and most of the club&#039;s windows were shot out.

I understand that police put themselves in danger every day and some do get killed in the line of duty.  But, the Dodge City mentality has gone too far even when there is no immediate danger to anyone.

In this case, the event was over and it was a deliberate killing with only the thinnest of justifications.

I had to kill a dog once.  It was a huge St. Bernard (ironic, no?) that had been raiding my heifer pasture and the owner refused to controll it.  When a dog almost as big as the stock it is attacking cannot be controlled in any other way then at some point you have to take severe action.  It was a very regretable situation that lead to hard feelings in the neighborhood for years but I only did it after every other option had been exhausted.

It should also be pointed out that in my case the police had already been involved and they made no rush to have the dog put down.  They preferred to have it resolved peacefully first which I think was the right thing to do.

I dont care what the department says.  The officer was in the wrong and was mostly likely angry because it was his dog and his wife involved and overstepped good judgement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im afraid I have to agree with Janine here&#8230;</p>
<p>Yes, the agressor dog was in the wrong.   But as you pointed out, this happens all the time.  Should deadly force be used - all the time?  I think not.</p>
<p>The dogs were seperated and no longer fighting (if that is what it was).  The officer did NOT have the authority to act as judge jury and executioner at that point.  A ticket for failure to control the dog was certainly in order or some such citation but NOT instant death!</p>
<p>I have become increasingly concerned with what I see as excessive force on the part of police followed by an all too automatic vindication of the officer(s).</p>
<p>Here in Green Bay we recently had an incident where a guy who had in fact been misbehaving (drinking for certain) and ran from police and was shot THIRTYSEVEN TIMES when he got out of his car and took out his cell phone.  A crowded nightclub was in the line of fire and a bouncer working there was shot twice and most of the club&#8217;s windows were shot out.</p>
<p>I understand that police put themselves in danger every day and some do get killed in the line of duty.  But, the Dodge City mentality has gone too far even when there is no immediate danger to anyone.</p>
<p>In this case, the event was over and it was a deliberate killing with only the thinnest of justifications.</p>
<p>I had to kill a dog once.  It was a huge St. Bernard (ironic, no?) that had been raiding my heifer pasture and the owner refused to controll it.  When a dog almost as big as the stock it is attacking cannot be controlled in any other way then at some point you have to take severe action.  It was a very regretable situation that lead to hard feelings in the neighborhood for years but I only did it after every other option had been exhausted.</p>
<p>It should also be pointed out that in my case the police had already been involved and they made no rush to have the dog put down.  They preferred to have it resolved peacefully first which I think was the right thing to do.</p>
<p>I dont care what the department says.  The officer was in the wrong and was mostly likely angry because it was his dog and his wife involved and overstepped good judgement.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-137756</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-137756</guid>
		<description>Corrected. I think I should go back to bed and start over. Or maybe John&#039;s right. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrected. I think I should go back to bed and start over. Or maybe John&#8217;s right. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Janine</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-137752</link>
		<dc:creator>Janine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-137752</guid>
		<description>Yup, fair enough.  And in case I wasn&#039;t clear, I do totally agree with you about people who say &quot;he&#039;s just playing&quot; when he&#039;s really not.  I&#039;ve run into more than one person who thinks this way--especially people with small dogs.  Recently there was a rat terrier at the dog park who was attacking and biting other (and much larger) dogs...and yet the owner thought it was funny.  I guess they figure since the dog isn&#039;t capable of doing lasting harm it&#039;s okay?  Luckily for that dog, the dogs it was fighting weren&#039;t fighting back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, fair enough.  And in case I wasn&#8217;t clear, I do totally agree with you about people who say &#8220;he&#8217;s just playing&#8221; when he&#8217;s really not.  I&#8217;ve run into more than one person who thinks this way&#8212;especially people with small dogs.  Recently there was a rat terrier at the dog park who was attacking and biting other (and much larger) dogs&#8230;and yet the owner thought it was funny.  I guess they figure since the dog isn&#8217;t capable of doing lasting harm it&#8217;s okay?  Luckily for that dog, the dogs it was fighting weren&#8217;t fighting back.</p>
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		<title>By: cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-137751</link>
		<dc:creator>cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-137751</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mr. Remedios, I’m sorry your dog is dead.&quot;


Did I read the story wrong? - I take it that Remedios was the off duty police officer and Halteh was the owner of the dog that was shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mr. Remedios, I’m sorry your dog is dead.&#8221;</p>
<p>Did I read the story wrong? - I take it that Remedios was the off duty police officer and Halteh was the owner of the dog that was shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Gina Spadafori</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-137750</link>
		<dc:creator>Gina Spadafori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-137750</guid>
		<description>Ya know what? I&#039;m going to agree with you both.

I was trying to make a point about people who their dogs bully other dogs and think it&#039;s OK because the dog is &quot;just playing&quot; when he&#039;s really not.

This may or may not have been the case here, and  no one who wasn&#039;t there will ever really know. 

Fair enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya know what? I&#8217;m going to agree with you both.</p>
<p>I was trying to make a point about people who their dogs bully other dogs and think it&#8217;s OK because the dog is &#8220;just playing&#8221; when he&#8217;s really not.</p>
<p>This may or may not have been the case here, and  no one who wasn&#8217;t there will ever really know. </p>
<p>Fair enough?</p>
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		<title>By: Janine</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/comment-page-1/#comment-137748</link>
		<dc:creator>Janine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/10/13/lawyering-up-doggie-style/#comment-137748</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t miss that, Gina, and I agree with your point.  But you also said that he shouldn&#039;t be suing, which in turn implies that the cop was in the right--which I don&#039;t agree with.  I&#039;m not saying that the guy was totally innocent, but killing his dog right then and there is not the right punishment for this sort of &quot;crime&quot;.

It&#039;s also hard to tell from the article if it really was playing or aggressiveness.  I agree with you that it&#039;s either one or the other, but some dogs definitely are more pushy with their play then others.  I know some dogs that bark and growl while playing--and they&#039;re definitely playing.  For people who don&#039;t know them, it can seem aggressive, even though it&#039;s not.

I guess my problem is that even though you&#039;re not recommending this way of ending a dog fight, it does seem like you&#039;re at least somewhat condoning it.  Like the guy should treat it as a lesson learned and do better next time, instead of fighting back against something that (in my opinion) was a very wrong decision on the part of the cop.  Of course, you&#039;re allowed to have any opinion you want on the topic, but I don&#039;t agree with you in this case.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t miss that, Gina, and I agree with your point.  But you also said that he shouldn&#8217;t be suing, which in turn implies that the cop was in the right&#8212;which I don&#8217;t agree with.  I&#8217;m not saying that the guy was totally innocent, but killing his dog right then and there is not the right punishment for this sort of &#8220;crime&#8221;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also hard to tell from the article if it really was playing or aggressiveness.  I agree with you that it&#8217;s either one or the other, but some dogs definitely are more pushy with their play then others.  I know some dogs that bark and growl while playing&#8212;and they&#8217;re definitely playing.  For people who don&#8217;t know them, it can seem aggressive, even though it&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>I guess my problem is that even though you&#8217;re not recommending this way of ending a dog fight, it does seem like you&#8217;re at least somewhat condoning it.  Like the guy should treat it as a lesson learned and do better next time, instead of fighting back against something that (in my opinion) was a very wrong decision on the part of the cop.  Of course, you&#8217;re allowed to have any opinion you want on the topic, but I don&#8217;t agree with you in this case.  :)</p>
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