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	<title>Comments on: Animals and society: Who draws the lines, and where?</title>
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	<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/</link>
	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts led by Dr. Marty Becker.</description>
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		<title>By: VJ</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105483</link>
		<dc:creator>VJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105483</guid>
		<description>Second the Amen from Julie regarding CherCat&#039;s comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Second the Amen from Julie regarding CherCat&#8217;s comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105439</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 17:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Amen CherCat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen CherCat</p>
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		<title>By: CherCat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105386</link>
		<dc:creator>CherCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105386</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never understood why animals always have to &quot;serve&quot; some human use. Why can&#039;t all animals be appreciated just because life in all forms is such a miracle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never understood why animals always have to &#8220;serve&#8221; some human use. Why can&#8217;t all animals be appreciated just because life in all forms is such a miracle?</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105377</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105377</guid>
		<description>When it comes to using animals for sport, here&#039;s the line I draw: is the welfare of the animal the first concern? The animal has no choice about their participation. With dog-fighting, it&#039;s easy to see the lack of regard for the animal. Not so easy with racing (dogs or horses from my POV), but it&#039;s still there for anyone caring to look.

In flat-track horse racing everything is geared towards keeping cheating to a minimum by regulating performance enhancing substances. But what about having regulations geared towards the well-being of the horse? Age restrictions, training restrictions -- heck, I don&#039;t know what heading something like abolishing the practice of pin-firing would fall under. (But it&#039;s a barbaric practice that is done for the benefit of humans who can&#039;t seem to understand the words, &quot;lay-off&quot; as in, lay off the work this horse is doing.) 

And what about Lasix? It&#039;s a diuretic used to prevent nose bleeds during races. So it effectively dehydrates the horse before they give a supreme athletic effort. (What about kidney or liver function?) Not horse-first thinking. (Has anyone bothered to figure out why nosebleeds happen anyway? It&#039;s not a natural condition, so something pathological must be going on.)

Horses will, for the most part, happily run themselves into the ground despite any physical discomfort and those of us who place the horse&#039;s welfare first think that it must be prevented from doing so. In the mindset of flat-track racers, it must be encouraged to run itself very close to into the ground. As close as possible. Not horse-first thinking.

It&#039;s so easy to pick on flat-track racing. I could easily pick on Quarter Horse futurities and shows for the same reasons. And Tennessee Walking Horse shows for all of the training abuses. And dog agility people who run their dogs too hard without understanding the physical and metabolic abuse they dish out. The point is the animal&#039;s well-being should come first, no matter what the venue. Remember, they have no choice -- humans choose for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to using animals for sport, here&#8217;s the line I draw: is the welfare of the animal the first concern? The animal has no choice about their participation. With dog-fighting, it&#8217;s easy to see the lack of regard for the animal. Not so easy with racing (dogs or horses from my POV), but it&#8217;s still there for anyone caring to look.</p>
<p>In flat-track horse racing everything is geared towards keeping cheating to a minimum by regulating performance enhancing substances. But what about having regulations geared towards the well-being of the horse? Age restrictions, training restrictions &#8212; heck, I don&#8217;t know what heading something like abolishing the practice of pin-firing would fall under. (But it&#8217;s a barbaric practice that is done for the benefit of humans who can&#8217;t seem to understand the words, &#8220;lay-off&#8221; as in, lay off the work this horse is doing.) </p>
<p>And what about Lasix? It&#8217;s a diuretic used to prevent nose bleeds during races. So it effectively dehydrates the horse before they give a supreme athletic effort. (What about kidney or liver function?) Not horse-first thinking. (Has anyone bothered to figure out why nosebleeds happen anyway? It&#8217;s not a natural condition, so something pathological must be going on.)</p>
<p>Horses will, for the most part, happily run themselves into the ground despite any physical discomfort and those of us who place the horse&#8217;s welfare first think that it must be prevented from doing so. In the mindset of flat-track racers, it must be encouraged to run itself very close to into the ground. As close as possible. Not horse-first thinking.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s so easy to pick on flat-track racing. I could easily pick on Quarter Horse futurities and shows for the same reasons. And Tennessee Walking Horse shows for all of the training abuses. And dog agility people who run their dogs too hard without understanding the physical and metabolic abuse they dish out. The point is the animal&#8217;s well-being should come first, no matter what the venue. Remember, they have no choice &#8212; humans choose for them.</p>
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		<title>By: The OTHER Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105363</link>
		<dc:creator>The OTHER Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105363</guid>
		<description>Comment by alice — August 9, 2007 @ 12:04 am

&quot;of course it was someone’s pet.&quot;

Maybe or maybe not - there&#039;s no way to know from the information Margaret presented here.

However, I do wish the retailer she cites had not been so evasive in his answer.  The source of the horsemeat could have been former racing animals, retired broodmares, agricultural livestock no longer able to work, etc.  And yes - the list of possibilities DOES include &quot;someone&#039;s pet&quot;.

Far better for the retailer to be honest and say that the horses they get come from a variety of sources and leave out the &quot;guarantee&quot; that these were never pets.  Because in all likelihood, the retailer simply cannot know whether any of them ever were or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment by alice — August 9, 2007 @ 12:04 am</p>
<p>&#8220;of course it was someone’s pet.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe or maybe not - there&#8217;s no way to know from the information Margaret presented here.</p>
<p>However, I do wish the retailer she cites had not been so evasive in his answer.  The source of the horsemeat could have been former racing animals, retired broodmares, agricultural livestock no longer able to work, etc.  And yes - the list of possibilities DOES include &#8220;someone&#8217;s pet&#8221;.</p>
<p>Far better for the retailer to be honest and say that the horses they get come from a variety of sources and leave out the &#8220;guarantee&#8221; that these were never pets.  Because in all likelihood, the retailer simply cannot know whether any of them ever were or not.</p>
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		<title>By: alice</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105243</link>
		<dc:creator>alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105243</guid>
		<description>of course it was someone&#039;s pet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>of course it was someone&#8217;s pet.</p>
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		<title>By: Lis</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105141</link>
		<dc:creator>Lis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105141</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I live in New Zealand now, and American ex-pat, and have found that I can buy horse meat from the raw petfood retailer. I emailed them and asked if I would be feeding my dog someone’s former pet, and they replied that no, these are horses are no longer needed. They are not raised for meat but some other purpose.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Not&lt;/i&gt; raised for meat, but for &quot;some other purpose.&quot; &quot;No longer needed.&quot;

Sounds like, potentially, someone&#039;s former pet. Remember that pet horses, unlike pet dogs and cats, because of their size and lifespan are quite likely to get sold on at some point, by still-caring owners who expect it to become someone else&#039;s pet, but that doesn&#039;t always happen. They can wind up in the hands of jobbers, and on their way to the slaughterhouse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I live in New Zealand now, and American ex-pat, and have found that I can buy horse meat from the raw petfood retailer. I emailed them and asked if I would be feeding my dog someone’s former pet, and they replied that no, these are horses are no longer needed. They are not raised for meat but some other purpose.</i></p>
<p><i>Not</i> raised for meat, but for &#8220;some other purpose.&#8221; &#8220;No longer needed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like, potentially, someone&#8217;s former pet. Remember that pet horses, unlike pet dogs and cats, because of their size and lifespan are quite likely to get sold on at some point, by still-caring owners who expect it to become someone else&#8217;s pet, but that doesn&#8217;t always happen. They can wind up in the hands of jobbers, and on their way to the slaughterhouse.</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-105078</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-105078</guid>
		<description>I live in New Zealand now, and American ex-pat, and have found that I can buy horse meat from the raw petfood retailer.  I emailed them and asked if I would be feeding my dog someone&#039;s former pet, and they replied that no, these are horses are no longer needed. They are not raised for meat but some other purpose. I bought some to try, and my dog and cats love it. The horse&#039;s demise was a by-product of some sport or work, probably racing, and it&#039;s last use is to feed my pets.  I&#039;m thankful for the chance to buy the meat because otherwise the carcass would be burned or buried, wasted.
BTW they also have greyhound racing here.  
And, we just had another dog mauling, despite strict dog control laws. The problem is enforcement.  See the New Zealand Herald for gruesome photos of the 2 year old with 290 stitches in her face. The paper writes very inflammatory articles with unsubstantiated statements and opinions. I come here for balance! Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in New Zealand now, and American ex-pat, and have found that I can buy horse meat from the raw petfood retailer.  I emailed them and asked if I would be feeding my dog someone&#8217;s former pet, and they replied that no, these are horses are no longer needed. They are not raised for meat but some other purpose. I bought some to try, and my dog and cats love it. The horse&#8217;s demise was a by-product of some sport or work, probably racing, and it&#8217;s last use is to feed my pets.  I&#8217;m thankful for the chance to buy the meat because otherwise the carcass would be burned or buried, wasted.<br />
BTW they also have greyhound racing here.<br />
And, we just had another dog mauling, despite strict dog control laws. The problem is enforcement.  See the New Zealand Herald for gruesome photos of the 2 year old with 290 stitches in her face. The paper writes very inflammatory articles with unsubstantiated statements and opinions. I come here for balance! Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: The OTHER Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-104952</link>
		<dc:creator>The OTHER Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 19:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-104952</guid>
		<description>Comment by Andrea 2CatMom — August 8, 2007 @ 6:37 am

&quot;when I see the number of horses that break down during races, I have to wonder if money doesn’t lead to either unfit horses being raced or some issue in breeding that is leading to these problems.&quot;

What I dislike greatly about horseracing is that they are started WAY too young.  Horse people know that a horse doesn&#039;t really mature - physically and mentally - until it is several years old.  Racing thoroughbreds  are started WAY before that.

Two year old horses are raced, and raced hard - and at two years old, a horse is still growing and developing joint and skeletal structure, muscular strength, mental maturity, etc.  Which means they&#039;ve been *training* while they&#039;re still babies - less than 2 years old.  And this is a big part of the reason for the breakdowns you see on the tracks - those still-growing little bodies just aren&#039;t ready to be pushed that hard.

And why the push to start them so young?  Well, *money* of course!  Those little baby Thoroughbreds are EXPENSIVE!  Expensive to buy, expensive to keep, expensive to train - the sooner they begin paying back dividends (in the form of winnings) or show that they&#039;re not going to &quot;be a contendah&quot; so that further investments in their racing career can be ended, the better it is for the bottom line.

And THAT is what I seriously dislike about the racing industry.

Why can&#039;t they just let the babies grow up and get strong, and THEN start running them?  (I know the answer to that, of course - $$$)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment by Andrea 2CatMom — August 8, 2007 @ 6:37 am</p>
<p>&#8220;when I see the number of horses that break down during races, I have to wonder if money doesn’t lead to either unfit horses being raced or some issue in breeding that is leading to these problems.&#8221;</p>
<p>What I dislike greatly about horseracing is that they are started WAY too young.  Horse people know that a horse doesn&#8217;t really mature - physically and mentally - until it is several years old.  Racing thoroughbreds  are started WAY before that.</p>
<p>Two year old horses are raced, and raced hard - and at two years old, a horse is still growing and developing joint and skeletal structure, muscular strength, mental maturity, etc.  Which means they&#8217;ve been *training* while they&#8217;re still babies - less than 2 years old.  And this is a big part of the reason for the breakdowns you see on the tracks - those still-growing little bodies just aren&#8217;t ready to be pushed that hard.</p>
<p>And why the push to start them so young?  Well, *money* of course!  Those little baby Thoroughbreds are EXPENSIVE!  Expensive to buy, expensive to keep, expensive to train - the sooner they begin paying back dividends (in the form of winnings) or show that they&#8217;re not going to &#8220;be a contendah&#8221; so that further investments in their racing career can be ended, the better it is for the bottom line.</p>
<p>And THAT is what I seriously dislike about the racing industry.</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t they just let the babies grow up and get strong, and THEN start running them?  (I know the answer to that, of course - $$$)</p>
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		<title>By: shadepuppy</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/comment-page-1/#comment-104901</link>
		<dc:creator>shadepuppy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/08/07/animals-and-society-who-draws-the-lines-and-where/#comment-104901</guid>
		<description>Lis asks: &quot;Please tell me what the word “pet” means, if not “companion animal” in plain, monosyllabic English rather than fancy latinate import words.&quot;

LOL! I don&#039;t like the longer term either, but when I made the change (many years ago), &quot;pets&quot; were not always considered family members -- dogs were often kept in the backyard and visited only at feeding time ( a practice I still see in my neighborhood, although less often now). &quot;Pets&quot; were owned property, not family members. The term &quot;companion animal&quot; conveyed to me the difference between how I felt about animals that I lived with, and the animals that were kept by people who had forgotten why they ever &quot;got a dog&quot;. Times have changed, and I see more family interaction and fewer &quot;backyard dogs&quot;. I may even start using the word &quot;pet&quot; again someday...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lis asks: &#8220;Please tell me what the word “pet” means, if not “companion animal” in plain, monosyllabic English rather than fancy latinate import words.&#8221;</p>
<p>LOL! I don&#8217;t like the longer term either, but when I made the change (many years ago), &#8220;pets&#8221; were not always considered family members &#8212; dogs were often kept in the backyard and visited only at feeding time ( a practice I still see in my neighborhood, although less often now). &#8220;Pets&#8221; were owned property, not family members. The term &#8220;companion animal&#8221; conveyed to me the difference between how I felt about animals that I lived with, and the animals that were kept by people who had forgotten why they ever &#8220;got a dog&#8221;. Times have changed, and I see more family interaction and fewer &#8220;backyard dogs&#8221;. I may even start using the word &#8220;pet&#8221; again someday&#8230;</p>
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