We’re getting it from the veterinary literature.

On another note, where are all you people getting your info from that FOUR MONTHS is TOO YOUNG. It absolutely is NOT too young! As a someone who works in a veterinary clinic I will tell you that it is a perfect age. You catch puppies and kittens before their first heat cycle, thus virtually eliminating certain cancer risks, and the ‘oops’ litters (because yes, 4-month old kittens can and WILL get pregnant), and you pet recovers quickly because of their young age. And it also reduces the marking behaviors because you are stopping it before it becomes a habit that is hard to break. It is actually safer than spaying/neutering older pets.

IT IS A NO-BRAINER. Work with an active street-wise rescue group for 6 months and try to tell me this is not a great idea!

All good points and so nicely presented and thought out. It breaks my heart to go to shelters and see the loving longing eyes of the disposable dogs and their crime - being born.

My little Angie who has this Lymphoma at an elderly age - was just such a dog - ears cut off - sweet disposition - and her crime probably was that she was too small to fight - it’s a wonder they didn’t just use her as bait - I’m glad they didn’t.

But sad to say, I’m afraid that getting people not to buy from these backyard breeders or flea markets will be very difficult - cheap is tempting and the unethical abound.

“Well, didn’t mean to spark such controversy. I know that good breeders don’t make money on their pets – and maybe there’s some way to exclude show dog breeders etc. It was just a brainstorm idea on something that might work.”

Linda, one of the things I remember when I first started getting involved was how simple things seemed at first, and the way a lot of things were done just didn’t make sense to me, *based on what I knew at that time.*

As I got in deeper, and learned more, I discovered - as is so often the case - that the more I learned, the more I realized I *didn’t* know. And it’s really fairly complex - a subject that doesn’t lend itself readily to “sound bytes”.

I’ve actually got a lot of patience to talk through the various issues with people who will take the time for actual *discussion* (kind of a “pay it forward” thing - when I was first getting involved in dogs and asked my endless questions, most of the time, the answers I got consisted basically of “Because that’s the way it’s done. Now go away, kid - you bother me!” When someone finally DID take the time to patiently answer my questions and help me see how logically it all hung together, I resolved that I would always extend that same patience to anyone who asked similar questions of me. But be warned - answers aren’t always that simple).

So do I agree with everything that show dog breeders do and everything that goes on in the show world? Nope! It’s that old human element of selfishness and greed that gets in there and has a way of messing up even the most well-intentioned of systems.

But from an idealistic viewpoint, and looking at the overall picture in a logical, coherent way, it still makes more sense than any of the alternatives I’ve seen (and largely the alternatives that get proposed consist of “Don’t breed one until there are none”)

“I was hoping to think of an idea that might cut the purse strings of those that do breed for money, not the good breeders that are our friends here at Pet Connection and other places.”

The problem here is that a lot of the things that distinguish Responsible Breeders from all the rest are *ethical* considerations, and trying to legislate ethics can be a real slippery slope. I’d like to see legislation that goes after clearcut offenders (one example being sales of puppies and kittens in retail outlets such as pet stores) but from there, the lines begin to get blurred in a lot of cases. It comes down to owner/buyer education, critical thinking, and a resolve to do the “right thing”.

“In any event, brainstorming begins with a germ of an idea”

Yes it does - which is why I’m always open to rational discussion.

“and is tweaked along the way to account for various situations.”

It’s the “tweaking” that can start lead down some bad paths if you’re not terribly vigilant in the process. And unfortunately, the tweaking is often done via “decision by committee” which leads to the kinds of messes we’re seeing (for example, this legislator’s gambit to get the bill through no matter what by promising every family could breed their dog - ANY dog - “just once” - an idea which runs directly counter both to the spirit of the bill he is pushing and to the statistical facts that say some huge percentage - don’t remember the numbers - of puppies in shelters come from ‘just once’ breedings.)

“The County would not find homes for young ones but would facilitate and collect money so that these people that breed their bitches until their nipples drag the floor will stop – no money in it for them.”

The way to make sure there is no money in it for them is to get people to stop buying from them. That requires education - always a more involved and difficult prospect than the easy fix of saying “No more breeding for ANYONE!”

“Anyway it’s a thought thrown out. I’m sure there are many good ideas around that might work.”

Linda, to really address the problem, the problem must be understood. And at it’s base, the starting question is this:

Given a choice, would you prefer to see:

1) Selective breeding?
2) Random breeding?
3) No breeding at all?

Those are the only three choices available, and there are ramifications to be discussed for each one of them.

I was hoping to think of an idea that might cut the purse strings of those that do breed for money, not the good breeders that are our friends here at Pet Connection and other places.

In any event, brainstorming begins with a germ of an idea and is tweaked along the way to account for various situations. The County would not find homes for young ones but would facilitate and collect money so that these people that breed their bitches until their nipples drag the floor will stop - no money in it for them.

Anyway it’s a thought thrown out. I’m sure there are many good ideas around that might work.

God bless you all.

“You are welcome to reply, but I won’t spend another minute reading your elitists rants.”

Well, that’s a relief, because you’re clearly not interested in any kind of a rational discussion.