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House panel threatens FDA with subpoena
By Christie Keith
May 25, 2007
Apparently it’s not just bloggers and reporters who are tired of non-answer answers from the FDA, redacted documents, and delays in releasing information relevant to the health and safety of the products we buy and consume. Some members of congress are getting kind of “off the charts,” too:
A Congressional committee on Thursday threatened to subpoena the Food and Drug Administration unless the agency responds to lawmakers’ requests for documents about U.S. drug and food safety.
Rep. John Dingell, the Democratic chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, accused the FDA of dragging its feet in responding to his panel’s oversight subcommittee.
The FDA insists it’s been “as responsive as possible to document requests from Chairman Dingell and other members of Congress,” but Dingell gave the FDA until June 1 to reply or the panel would start issuing subpoenas to get the information it’s requested.
Since January, the committee has asked the FDA to provide documents about generic drug approvals, an outbreak of salmonella in peanut butter, post-market surveillance of the antibiotic Ketek, contamination of pet food with ingredients imported from China, and antibiotic resistance linked to wide use of drugs in farm animals.
“The delays and the quality of responses to the committee’s requests concerning FDA are unacceptable,” Dingell said in a letter to Secretary of Health and Human Services Michael Leavitt. Leavitt’s department oversees the FDA.
Dingell also complained that in some instances, the FDA turned over redacted records to the committee without any prior consultations about the redactions.
I know just how they feel. Full story here.
Earlier today, reports circulated that the U.S. was getting tough behind closed doors with China on its food safety record. Now, China’s striking back with a warning of its own:
Fed up with weeks of Americans bashing their food safety standards, Chinese government and industry officials say that bargain-hunting U.S. food companies share blame if contaminated Chinese ingredients wind up in food.
More than two months after the USA began a massive pet-food recall, since linked to contaminated ingredients imported from China, business and government officials in China are investigating what went wrong and promising improvement in a country where mass poisonings from tainted foods have been common. But they also say they’re not the only ones who need to take more responsibility.
“Officials like me in the Chinese government can supervise the producers here, but U.S. companies doing business with Chinese companies must also be very clear about the standards they need, and don’t just look for a cheap price,” says Yuan Changxiang, a deputy director in the ministry responsible for inspecting imports and exports.
More here. And those crazy kids at the Wall Street Journal had something to say about the administration’s attitudes towards China, although they only mention the food safety issue in passing. Interesting reading for those looking into the bigger picture of the relationship between our two countries.
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If viable and trustworthy responses are forthcoming is real, this would maybe commence bringing back confidence of the citizens - US, the land of freedom, trust, honesty, and we see now why it’s our Nation’s way or no way. We definitely see how this country needs to be self-reliant - we’ll pay $$$ and donate our time and efforts to support those efforts. We need to continue to request information from our organic/natural entities, and it’s time for them to volunteer/web-up their quality and compacity issues. As organic/natural become the norm, then prices will fall. Our government and educational system needs to support these efforts too regarding learning issues of family farming/co-ops and nutrition in order to preserve our civilization and way of life. We see it so clearly now. Not getting into the embarrassing details, we’ve learned so much since the recalls commenced. We definitely see where we need ultimate confidence/trust in our food systems in order to survive. Otherwise, why even worry about Iraq, Iran and other efforts being made in the name of peace, including those double-digit returns that probably got us in trouble in the first place….we’ll place less pressure on investment returns to better invest in our health and survival of planet Earth…that’s real. Thank you Lord. AMEN.
Comment by Bee — May 25, 2007 @ 4:31 am
Yes, we can’t depend on China to fix things. What we can do is hold our own food suppliers responsible, expect our government to fulfill their roles as watchdogs, and count on the press to keep us aware. It means a lifetime of reading labels, staying informed, kicking butt when necessary. I’m sort of hopeful that instead of being fringe, eat locally, grow organically, I might now have a substantial crowd marching with me; numbers count.
It was good to hear some coverage this morning on NPR - they hadn’t been all that great but they did a longer and more complete report this morning.
Comment by Nancy Nielsen — May 25, 2007 @ 5:01 am
“Chinese government and industry officials say that bargain-hunting U.S. food companies share blame if contaminated Chinese ingredients wind up in food.”
My turn for a head explosion! Pardon me, but this is such BS!!! Talk about making excuses!
NO amount of bargain-hunting or pressure to meet lower costs justifies putting dangerous chemicals in the food supply to preserve the almighty “bottom line”. There’s something called “ethics” that businessmen in BOTH China AND the United States have conveniently forgotten.
The whole thing is BEYOND reprehensible . . . . . . . .
Comment by The OTHER Pat — May 25, 2007 @ 5:21 am
Letter from Rep. Delauro to the President:
http://www.house.gov/delauro/p.....22_07.html
Comment by Sandy — May 25, 2007 @ 5:35 am
Delauro Quote;With the bilateral economic discussions we have an opportunity to take critical steps to improving the safety of our food import by urging China to implement food safety reforms that are discernible and verifiable if it wants continued access to the American market.”
Yes this can be done with a records system from http://www.scoringcontainers.com where any product or ingredient has a source and its container is tracked in real time.Even the food or feed handlers that shipped or brokered the product can be traced within seconds along with lab tests to prove verifiable ownership and quality .
Comment by William Kanitz — May 25, 2007 @ 6:02 am
Better yet, why don’t we limit imports from China to non-food items? The safety of our food supply is in dire jeopardy!
Nancy, it is true that some folks are waking up and realizing there is a problem with food safety, but others are still more concerned with who is going to be the “American Idol”
Comment by Elaine — May 25, 2007 @ 6:56 am
Comment by The OTHER Pat — May 25, 2007 @ 5:21 am Pat I agree but on the other hand I wonder if our pet food companies hadnt resorted to the cheapest product they could find, whether they would have come in contact with these shady companies they were dealing with. My mom always says, you get what you pay for. I am in no way letting China off the hook but if companies are searching for the cheapest product, maybe that leads them to some unsavory companies that maybe had no ethics in the firt place? I dont know……
Comment by Sandi K — May 25, 2007 @ 7:00 am
Oh believe me - I think there’s WAY more than enough “no ethics” to go around on this one!
Comment by The OTHER Pat — May 25, 2007 @ 7:04 am
Ya’ buy cheap goods from Wal-Mart; then you get what you pay for. That shouldn’t mean poison though…
Glad to see that congress is stepping it up a bit; that is good to hear. Thanks!
Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 25, 2007 @ 7:05 am
The idea that cheap prices are to blame for poisoned food products is beyond idiotic. Everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else but absolutely no one has taken responsbility for anything - whether it be China, food manufacturers, or our own government. The Today Show this AM did a segment on food imports - basically announcing “buyer beware.” I’m sure, though, its importance got lost among the segments on bathing suits and Blondie concerts.
Comment by Carol — May 25, 2007 @ 7:08 am
Bathing suits, Blondie, American Idol? I don’t have a tv so I’m insulated and ignorant of the things that resonate with the larger public. I guess as long as I can write letters, do an each-one-teach-one about our food supply and the effects of our buying decisions, that will have to be my contribution - that and digging my heels in against ALL imports where I question the safety of the products or the ethics of the producers. Since 16 of the world’s most polluted cities are in China, perhaps my decisions can even make a difference to the mass of Chinese people - the ones who might not have chosen to poison my dog, or their own children.
Comment by Nancy Nielsen — May 25, 2007 @ 7:23 am
Elaine, I agree. It is a national security issue; we need to make, grow, and produce our own food. We can import specialty item such as Swiss Chocolate and things like bananas that we can’t grow here. Other than that we need to make our own food, all of it.
We have to be able to feed ourselves, as a country, with NO Imports. It would be a disaster for us to rely on any outside country to feed us. We have the land and the people to do this; it’s not like we can’t.
We do have people willing to work; we will just have to pay them a decent wage. We will have to stop paying farmers not to grow food and start paying them to actually grow the food. If I have to pay more to have American grown and processed, safe and secure food, then so be it.
We always pay in the end; we have to be willing to pay. Besides there is just too much energy being used to ship this stuff all over the world while the fields and plants here just sit, unused. While there are good people that are willing to work but can’t have jobs.
We don’t need to bring our standard of living down to that of a 3rd world country, which is what we do when we trade with these countries who’s standards are poor to none.
Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 25, 2007 @ 7:27 am
You get what you pay for.
Is that so?
Iams - was supposed to be a ‘premium food’, the best you could buy for your money, and it *was not cheap*.
Guess what: one of my cats almost died, and the other got very, very sick. On a high-price, premium , specialized, nutritionally balanced Iams diet (snortle).
Guess what: If I hadn’t paid *anything* for cat food but fed them from table scraps, they would be better off now.
Now what was that again about ‘getting what you paid for?’
Comment by MaKo — May 25, 2007 @ 7:36 am
I think blame lies in many areas.
First, anyone who uses a harmful chemical to spike protein levels should be dealt with criminally. That would also give me reason to cancel all trade with that country.
But blame lies with:
1. Exporters who do not test for safety/purity.
2. Importers who do not test for safety/purity and look for cheapest sources.
3. Pet food companies who go for the cheapest products, pass them off as healthy, best nutrition, etc. and make a fortune. Where are those laws about truth in advertising when it comes to pet food? Look at their ads, they cannot back up what they advertise.
4. PFI who obviously is unable to set regulations to ensure safe food.
5. FDA/USDA (I don’t have enough space to comment on the list of failures here)
6. Congress for not having some type of checks and balances to ensure FDA/USDA and other agencies are fulfulling their mission.
7. Homeland Security - just what are they doing?
I, like many of you, just want someone to take responsibility — which we all know is not going to happen.
Comment by Donna — May 25, 2007 @ 7:41 am
World War II was won because USA manufactured or grew everything necessary to sustain life. Great Britain, on other hand, had to import many things. Because America was so self-sustaining we were able to export to England what they needed to survive to war years. But now, largely due to corrupt gov’t totally under the influence of all the corporations, this country can no longer sustain itself. We’ve exported or traded away our jobs, our manufacturing base, our energy base, and even worse - our ability to produce our own (relatively) safe foods. There is no way America could have won WWII nor helped England and Europe in this day and age. America is now a dependent country. How sad! How scary!
Comment by CherCat — May 25, 2007 @ 8:02 am
‘Since January, the committee has asked the FDA to provide documents…’
“The delays and the quality of responses to the committee’s requests concerning FDA are unacceptable,” Dingell said in a letter to Secretary of Health and Human Services Michael Leavitt. Leavitt’s department oversees the FDA.
How true is Dingell’s statement!
And what is this 6 months waiting for documents? Its long past due to put the ‘FEMA squeeze’ on the FDA and get them squirming in the hot seat. FDA sounds/acts as if they are trying a cover-up.
Comment by Deanna — May 25, 2007 @ 8:16 am
MaKo, we are supposed to get what we pay for; we need a way of insuring that what we pay for is in the bag. We didn’t pay for poison. They are criminals and murders. Iams needs to go out of business and the same for the others. PFI needs to be disbanded. AAFCO and the FDA need to be overhauled. ASPCA and AVMA need to actually protect our pets and not just pay lip service.
There are failures at each leg of the system. There is still poisoned food on the shelves and everyone involved needs to be taken to task for it. If China want to make crap that is their business; we don’t have to buy it. We do need our government and these other agencies to do the policing and testing that is their responsibility.
If it’s not made here it needs to say that. It doesn’t cost our growers and producers; it needs to cost the foreigners to prove that what they want to sell is up to our laws and standards.
COOL is not available to us; therefore I don’t know what is imported or safe. Therefore I am boycotting everything I can. Nobody is making money from me. I found a local farm for milk, eggs and chicken; my cats Evo is tested safe and American made. I don’t need anything else. I will do without and save a lot of money.
To hell with corporate greed; they can starve. They can run them selves into the ground going around in circles with their marketing gimmicks. I ain’t buying it!!!
Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 25, 2007 @ 8:23 am
Ok, I have been inspired by you all to contact my favorite food suppliers and find out where their ingredients come from. I have been avoiding all ground grains for the last couple of weeks. I eat mostly organic, but I know that does not mean it is not from China.
I agree that the blame for this is much bigger than a political party. We all play a part. Almost every day I talk to friends who brag about what a great bargain they got on the things they buy. My question is is it really a bargain if the true cost is forced sweat shop labor and business owners so desperate to make a profit that they will resort to whatever they feel they can get away with?
Comment by Angela Flynn — May 25, 2007 @ 8:26 am
I don’t need anything else since we have a backyard garden…kind-of left that part out…
Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 25, 2007 @ 8:35 am
Not everyone can have a garden…they need safe food…We all need the laws and organizations needs to enforce those laws. Laws are supposed to balance out corporate greed.
Government has failed us.
Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 25, 2007 @ 8:39 am
Speaking of subpoena:
The subpoena that I want to see served is one to Menu Foods Income Funds, the test lab.
I want the complete tests, test results, substances and whatnot over the past two or three years. I want the names of the complete test staff, and I want them under oath. I want the very real possibility of jail time waving at the end of a lie.
And I want that information published.
Where is Homeland Security when you need them?
Comment by MaKo — May 25, 2007 @ 8:57 am
Absolutely our government has failed us. Not ensuring the safety of our food supply long before the pet food mess is completely irresponsible. I do believe our government listens more to its corporate citizens than anyone else, and this is a prime example of that. It shouldn’t have taken a group of justifably irate pet owners to bring this problem to light;the FDA had a responsibility to sound the alarm years ago. Doesn’t inspire faith in the system.
Comment by Carol — May 25, 2007 @ 8:58 am
Some of the Farm/Ranch organizations I belong to are working to get some competition reforms in the 2007 Farm Bill so family operations have the safeguards needed to compete against the predatory practices of the big food conglomerates such as Tyson, Cargill, etc.
It is an uphill battle because of the “close” relationship between these companies and the congressmen they donate to. The companies also have undue influence on the govt agencies, such as USDA and FDA. (I realize I don’t really need to tell you all that, we are witnessing this every day!)
We are also working to have mandatory COOL implemented by Sept. 2007, and I know that many of you are working on that also.
Thanks to all of you politically active bloggers, we are making some headway.
Comment by Elaine — May 25, 2007 @ 9:02 am
Carol,
You said it way better than I did, in a lot fewer words!
Donna, I agree with your comments posted at 7:41
Unfortunately the Homeland Security is just high paying jobs and a “do nothing” govt agency, just like the rest!
Comment by Elaine — May 25, 2007 @ 9:08 am
It wouldn’t surpise me if Homeland Security was on an extended vacation in Dubai.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 9:13 am
Unfortunately, the FDA does not have to listen to Congress and I do hope they drag the overly important FDA there screeming and kicking if necessary along with hidden and secret documents. It’s time to know the truth.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Thanks, Elaine. I appreciate all of your comments and learn something from you every time you post.
COOL is definitely a necessity. Despite the hurdles we must jump to get our government to finally do its job, it’s vital to our safety - both human and pet- that our voice be heard to change the “business as usual” practices we have been subjected to.
Comment by Carol — May 25, 2007 @ 9:20 am
http://www.cafepress.com/FoodSafety4All
Comment by The OTHER Pat — May 25, 2007 @ 9:24 am
Unfortunately, one thing that has been exposed throughout these last six years is the extent to which those who actually form the “elite” believe that they are above the rule of law. They believe that they are unaccountable to the rabble, the great unwashed masses, and that rules are made for suckers, government is made to enrich your friends, and “regulations” just get in the way of their money parade.
On the other hand, regulations is perfectly okay when these same people wish to intrude in your telephone and internet conversations, restrict birth control, morning after pills, HPV vaccine, data mine your personal information, collect databases of your medication purchases, and intrude in end of life decisions.
They believe that regulation is okay for you but not for me. Don’t mess you their money, but they want to be in your bedroom.
Comment by Black Lab Owner — May 25, 2007 @ 9:30 am
Thanks The OTHER Pat,
Another site for COOL is http://www.americansforlabeling.org It has a list of the organizations in the coalition working together for COOL.
Comment by Elaine — May 25, 2007 @ 9:35 am
Yesterday I received a link from The New York Times about an interactive game about our Food Safety. It requires an subscription to the Times, which I have, but thought it worthy of mention here. This problem is getting lots of attention - all good news.
May 24, 2007
Sightlines: Mind Games
Food Import Folly is the first part of Mind Games, a series of news games created for Times Select by Persuasive Games, an Atlanta-based multimedia company.
Food Import Folly
Protect the United States from contaminants found in foreign food imports in this interactive game created for TimesSelect.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 9:42 am
The FDA needs to be disbanded.
If they don’t answer to us or the Senate or the House, and they don’t, then why are they being paid by taxpayers?
Let the drug companies that are so freaking fond of the way the FDA does things pay for it.
Hire pet parents, who sure need the money to pay vet bills, I bet we can inspect the daylights out of imports!
I will do it for FREE if my taxes get cut back, there was a horrifying CNN report on all the
“earmarked” pork we pay for, a ski lift? and OUR money going out faster than you could blow your retirement funds in Las Vegas!
No need to go to Las Vegas to gamble, just opening a can of cat food can destroy your budget for years.
Comment by E. Hamilton — May 25, 2007 @ 10:07 am
This article shows how low the big meatpackers will go to continue their unfair price advantage:
Congress Blatantly Misled by Meat and Poultry Promotion Coalition
Source: R-CALF USA
May 24, 2007
Washington, D.C. – R-CALF USA is urging Congress to not be misled by a letter from the “Meat and Poultry Promotion Coalition” that purports to represent the interests of “a vast majority of the livestock, poultry and meat producers in the U.S.”
“The coalition letter is a blatant attempt to mislead Congress, as the letter’s signatories, specifically Tyson Foods, Cargill, Swift & Co., and National Beef are the four largest U.S. meatpackers that now control over 80 percent of the steer and heifer slaughter in the United States,” said R-CALF USA CEO Bill Bullard. “The American Meat Institute and the National Meat Association – also signatories – are the packers’ trade associations. These entities are not producers. They are packers and processors and do not represent the interests of livestock farmers and ranchers that HR 2135 seeks to protect.”
The letter urges the House Agriculture Committee on Livestock Dairy and Poultry to vote down HR 2135, a bipartisan bill that would establish an Office of Special Counsel in the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) to investigate and prosecute violations on competition matters and update the 80-year old Packers and Stockyards Act (PSA) to reflect today’s market conditions. Specifically, this bill would prohibit unfair and deceptive practices; require regulations to define “unreasonable preference or advantage;” and clarify that producers need not also prove anti-competitive injury in cases involving unfair or deceptive practices.
“Not a single one of these entities (that signed the letter) represents any of R-CALF USA’s 15,000 members,” Bullard continued. “In fact, these entities’ economic interests are in direct competition with the economic interests of U.S. farmers and ranchers. U.S. cattle producers and these packers and processors compete against each other to maximize their respective profits, minimize their respective risks and enhance their respective competitiveness.”
R-CALF USA Mississippi Membership Chair Stanley Scott said he strongly objects to the content of the coalition’s letter because it is a gross misrepresentation of the truth. Scott is a fourth generation cattle producer, a livestock market operator and a member of the Mississippi Beef Council.
“Their statement ‘to preserve the profitability of U.S. livestock and meat producers’ warrants questioning because I can assure you the goal of these coalition members is to make a profit and increase shareholder wealth,” Scott said. “I contend that common sense shows these corporations’ welfare and the welfare of producers are diametrically opposed, and I am insulted and astounded that any of those among this coalition would dare to claim to speak for U.S. cattle producers.”
Scott called the following portion of the coalition letter amazing doublespeak: “We want to ensure that consumer demand continues to drive business decisions between producers and processors.”
“Are there no critical thinkers left in Washington,” Scott asked. “The very intent of their letter is to avoid fair competition and true price discovery and keep in place their current practices, such as forward contracts with no base, and captive supplies, which help them accomplish their tyranny over U.S. producers. One only has to look at the members of this coalition to see they are large corporations and not producers at all.”
“We now have in writing actual proof that these multinational monopolies are decidedly trying to confuse the general public and trick the public into believing they represent the hard-working farmers and ranchers across the USA,” Bullard commented. “We trust Congress will recognize this is a ploy and also will recognize the tremendous disparity in market power between the highly concentrated meatpackers and processors and the grassroots individuals who indeed produce cattle.
“HR 2135 is an essential measure to level the economic playing field between producers and packers and processors,” he concluded. “Congress’ support of HR 2135, HR 2213 (Captive Supply Reform Act) and a ban on packer ownership is needed to ensure there will be robust competition in U.S. livestock markets.”
Note: To view R-CALF USA’s letter to Rep. Leonard Boswell, D-Iowa, Stanley Scott’s letter to Boswell, as well as the coalition’s letter to Boswell, visit the “Competition Issues” link at http://www.r-calfusa.com, or contact R-CALF USA Communications Coordinator Shae Dodson. Boswell chairs the House Agriculture Subcommittee on Livestock, Dairy and Poultry.
r-calfusa.com
Comment by Elaine — May 25, 2007 @ 10:28 am
“But the list of requests is wide ranging and the Chinese could consider it quite intrusive. The United States wants all food and feed exporters to be registered. They would be the only manufacturers allowed to send products to America. Also on the U.S. “request list”: Officials want the full details of the Chinese food safety system, and raw data — not just results — of tests of regulated products.”
Are the talking about registering in China??? The ones coming into the US are ALREADY REGISTERED!! BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT !!
China has 15141 FDA REGISTERED SUPPLIERS!!
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~furls/ffregsum.html
Comment by Kat — May 25, 2007 @ 10:37 am
Comment by MaKo — May 25, 2007 @ 7:36 am
Hey Mako, guess what? My pet DIED from eating poison food so I dont appreciate your rudeness towards me. My comment was intended only to say that the pet food companies DO hold responsibility also and them going with cheap ingredients from China has a part in all of this. I just happen to agree with Dr Khuly, that while China holds their share of blame in this, it doesnt mean the pet food companies should be let off the hook. Save your attacks for the pet food companies and China rather than me OK?
Comment by Sandi K — May 25, 2007 @ 10:40 am
What the companies are looking for is to maximize profits and increase sales, undercut the other guy, and buy cheap and in this case toxic.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 10:45 am
In fact what they do is operate on the same philosophy as Walmart. Sell a lot of stuff at a smaller profit and make much more money than selling a little bit at a large profit. So these pet food companies figured, hey we will just buy more junk from China and watch our profits soar - no matter that’s it is not safe or even really questioinable, no matter …..major denial going on. Just make money and retire young with a fat pension.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 11:06 am
Want to make a comment? Here you go, hot off the wire!
FSIS Seeks Comments on Agency Decision-Making During Investigation Into Animal Feed Containing Melamine
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/News_...../index.asp
Comment by Sandy — May 25, 2007 @ 11:18 am
What’s needed here is a old fashioned “swat upside the head”? Fda is funded by us?
we pay for every gov. office , and it’s employess! let ‘em know it!! start by firring
some fda arsebites.. basicly we HAVE to grow
our own foods.. it’s not a matter of trade , im all for trade, dang it! it’s the enviorment , and global warming that deems it? a few decades
an we’l have trouble growing food? whats china
going to grow everyones food? support AMERICAN
FARMS. by food from our own people, the corportaions aren’t going to listen.. we have to put ‘em out of business!!!
Comment by johnypaycut — May 25, 2007 @ 11:36 am
Comment by Sandy — May 25, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Further to this FSIS news release, there is a link for a pdf that describes how they arrived at their “risk assessment”. Please take a look at page 24. The safety/risk assessment is available at: http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKE.....a00001.pdf.
It shows that some of the “pet scraps” DID test POSITIVE for Ammelide and Ammeline (in addition to Melamine and Cyanuric Acid). Did I miss this before somewhere that these two additional chemicals were found? Did anyone know about this?
Ammelide decomposes at 170oC with water to form carbon dioxide and ammonia. It can be converted into cyanuric acid by oxidizing agents (e.g. potassium permanganate) or by boiling with acids or alkalies.
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 11:36 am
page not found Nabiya. did you happen to DL it?
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 11:39 am
when i go to the original link, the 2 pdf’s only have 16 and 5 pages . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 11:42 am
stray, go the link above (Comment by Sandy — May 25, 2007 @ 11:18 am) and scroll down to the 2nd .pdf link. It works if you do it that way, I just tried it.
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 11:42 am
sorry - meant 3rd .pdf link!
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 11:43 am
nevermind. I’m on crack. the 3rd pdf does have a pg. 24 but it’s about fish feed. still looking……
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 11:45 am
Here’s the link for the news release from FSIS:
http://tinyurl.com/yveju3
End of second paragraph, risk assessment. See PDF and check out page 24.
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Sorry, page 20!
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 11:52 am
thanks you 2! i thought i had DL the same one twice since the file name was similar. I didn’t know what Nephritis was (pg22) so I looked it up . . .
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec11/ch144/ch144a.html
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 11:52 am
Start at the bottom of pg. 13 and work your way down. It lists the results on pet scraps, bakery meal samples, and poultry & swine feed samples.
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 11:55 am
straybaby: thanks for posting that, Nephritis symptoms are scarring build up in the kidneys and/or blood clots in the kidney; either of which cause renal failure. So this is in ADDITION to crystals being formed from Melamine and cyanuric acid. No wonder the poor pets don’t stand a chance when they consume this shit.
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 11:59 am
Pet Food Scrap Samples
Results for cyanuric acid were reported for 20 samples. Of those, 13 were negative and the highest value quantitated was 2,180 ppm. Information was available on ammelide and ammeline in 20 samples
18 samples were negative and two were positive for both compounds. For ammelide, the two concentrations that were positive were 6.0 and 10.8 ppm, and for ammeline were 3.0 and 43.3 ppm.
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 11:59 am
stray - yeah, thanks from me as well. this is really, really SCARY.
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
well this SUCKS! I’m OUT of Bailey’s!!!!
*pout*
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Comment by Sandi K — May 25, 2007 @ 10:40 am
I sincerely apologize that I unintentionally hurt your feelings.
I am not quite sure, though, why you interpret my referring to the sentence ‘You get what you pay for’ as a personal, rude attack towards you.
Unfortunately, I must have missed to make crystal clear that the actual amount of money paid for pet food had no, repeat no, influence to the poisonous nature, and therefore the ‘you get what you pay for’ did not apply in this case.
I am convinced that you agree with me that pet owners whose animals are/were sick or have died have enough on their plate already - and I am sure that you, like me and everybody else, is sick to their stomach by the thought of having fed poison to our pets. That happened unknowingly, but I still have those horrified thoughts of *me* poisoning *my beloved pets*.
My intention was to point out that the ones responsible for death and suffering is the pet food industry with their deplorable business practices, not the dollar amount on the can of food.
:)
Comment by MaKo — May 25, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
I must be having a severe Homer moment. I just read this:
“The interim human safety/risk assessment notes that melamine is not metabolized, and is rapidly excreted. Thus, it is not believed to accumulate in the body of animals.”
here:
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal.....5/0129.xml
So can someone please explain to me why crystals were found in ureters and what not of pets if it’s not believed to be accumulated in the body?
Did I miss this explanation somewhere? Because if I didn’t, I need to go off in search of some major hard liquor NOW. Aside from our online tequila binges, I rarely if ever drink so this should tell you something.
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
straybaby: Did you ever find out where the unknown 20% of Baileys ingredients are from?
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Let me try that link again, it didn’t fully truncate for some reason:
http://tinyurl.com/39hh95
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
page 16 second paragraph, what does “one order of magnitude higher mean”?
and a strictly silly question . . .
they are measuring the feed in ppm, yet the urine and tissue in ppb, wouldn’t that leave unaccounted for Melamine and Friends?
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Another question…..re this link:
http://tinyurl.com/2kdqkh
ACTIONS REQUESTED OF THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO ADDRESS THE SAFETY OF FOOD AND FEED
“n May 22-24, 2007 representatives of the United States Government met with representatives of the Government of the People’s Republic of China to request rapid action to accomplish certain goals related to food safety…”
(see link above for what was outlined at the meeting)
“Not all Chinese ministries involved in food safety were represented in the delegation that traveled to the U.S. this week. Therefore, HHS and USDA asked the delegation to relay these requests to all relevant ministries and rapidly report back.”
Anyone know if the absent chinese food ministries ever did report back to the USDA and HHS? If so, how “rapid” was it? Or does “rapid” have another meaning in China than here? Considering how long it took China to issue U.S. investigators VISAS, I have a feeling it does.
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
Well let’s hope like heck it’s not the FDA’s idea of rapid. . . I think the Chinese bulldozed the factories faster . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
“think the Chinese bulldozed the factories faster . . .”
Oh there’s no doubt in my mind that they did, stray.
got cognac?
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
From the FSIS news release:
All hogs and chickens that were prviously under State quarantine or being held voluntarily by the producers because they had been identified as having consumer adulterated feed have been released.”
NOTE TO THE PRODUCERS: You don’t have to release these animals for human consumption. That is your choice to make. If you do release them, you are just following in the footsteps of China and producing contaminated food irregardless of whether it’s for humans or pets.
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
Considering all the adulterated food from China that recently came to light, think maybe those absent ministries should’ve been there?! They were probably too busy testing their latest batch of melamine or antibiotics additives. Cripes….
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
no, but i DO have some Dublin Mudslide Ben and Jerry’s! ;)
This weekend I’m going to experiment making my own, lol!~
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
stray - ya big tease. feel free to mail me any good exeriments.
I can send ya some forzen cold packs. ;)
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
I haven’t read through all the documents yet, but have the 20 million chickens resurfaced?
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
“exeriments”?
“forzen”
ok. this is not a good sign.
I haven’t even started drinking yet.
time for a break, ally…..=:-O
have fun hunting down the 20,000,000 melachickens, stray!
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
heh, I have a whole bunch of cold packs from the 100lbs of pet food meat that was just delivered!
I’ll be doing yogurts, pasta and ice cream :)
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
The Chinese Red Army probably bull dozed the factories and shot all who might talk.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
Here’s my favorite part of the risk asessment:
The point of departure (POD) is the NOAEL of 63 mg/kg/day from the rodent subchronic bioassay. This POD was then divided by two 10-fold safety/uncertainty factors (SF/UF) to account for inter- and intra-species sensitivity, for a total SF/UF of 100. The resulting
Tolerable Daily Intake (TDI) is 0.63 mg/kg bw/day. The TDI is defined as the estimated maximum amount of an agent to which individuals in a population may be exposed daily over their lifetimes without an appreciable health risk with respect to the endpoint from which the NOAEL is calculated.
So, based on what happens to rats, in their wisdom they’ve decided that it’s ok for us to eat melamine and related compounds daily… for the rest of our lives. Does this sound as though they’re trying to rid us of contamination? No! They’re trying to convince us it’s ok… forever! Melamine… it’s what’s for dinner.
Comment by explodinghed — May 25, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Comment by Ally — May 25, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
Ally I was wondering that too. Somewhere I thought I read that it is when it combines with cyanuric acid that it causes the crystals? It was also my understanding that at the time they hadnt done an assessment of cyanuric acid and why that is I have no idea. There is no understanding FDA or USDA for that matter (IMO). So did that mean they didnt test the animals for cyanuric acid? I dont know…..
Comment by Sandi K — May 25, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
Comment by MaKo — May 25, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Mako, I think you may have misinterpreted my statement but it doesnt matter. I think we actually agree but are having a hard time communicating that. With my pet dead and yours ill, along with many others here in the same boat, we all agree there is lots of blame to go around to FDA, China, pet food companies and on and on. We all just need to stick together to try and make this better and to prevent it so no one in the future has to go what we have gone through and no more pets have to suffer. Best wishes for the recovery of your pets.
Comment by Sandi K — May 25, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Sandi K,
I too have wondered why we haven’t heard more about the cyanuric acid in dog food and the combination effects with “Melamine”. I started feeding some dry again, but it worries now with concerns over IAMS, even though I have stopped feeding IAMS, and I too believe this is not a problem of consumers buying cheap but of the pet food companies buying cheap.
It is all such a horrible worry and every little tummy upset or glitch with my dogs causes me concern and some of it is nothing but an over-reaction, but still I can’t help it. I just don’t know for sure what is in those bags.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
NOTE TO THE PRODUCERS: You don’t have to release these animals for human consumption. That is your choice to make. If you do release them, you are just following in the footsteps of China and producing contaminated food irregardless of whether it’s for humans or pets.
True dat Nabiya! They are getting reimbursed from the Gov’t anyhow. They’re going to make double profit by releasing these animals.
Comment by Tammy — May 25, 2007 @ 2:03 pm
“They are getting reimbursed from the Gov’t anyhow.”
With OUR money!!! I think the PFI should do the reimbursing . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 25, 2007 @ 2:08 pm
I can’t believe the FSIS won’t release who the producers are that had the contaminated chickens and swine. Sometimes I feel like I’m already living in a “developing country”. I would think it’s our god given right, not just rights of citizens, to know exactly where our food supply is coming from. Big f’ing deal that they told us what states the contaminated chickens and swine were distributed to, like that really means anything to us.
Comment by Nabiya — May 25, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
It’s blood money. The gov’t will continue to take care of the big wigs while the peons continue to find a way to do it themselves and still make up for lack of taxes the rich pay. Homeowners in Louisiana and Mississippi are still waiting for their homes to be rebuilt while others never got a trailer.
I think Mark W. of Menu Foods should have to use the money he made from selling stocks to start paying some pet owners for their vet bills.
Comment by Tammy — May 25, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
I know your worries Linda. I just finished “babysitting” a 4 mos old kitty for someone who had to go out of town on medical. The second day I had her with me, she developed diahrrea. I just buried my cat on 3-11 so you can imagine that I freaked out. I took my “house guest” to the vet and he prescribed anti-biotics and she is OK now but needless to say I was thinking not another sick pet! Not to mention a very difficult vet visit as the last time I was there was when our girl died. I dont think any of the pet food companies truly understand peoples emotional turmoil over this (nor do they care). It will be a long time before lots of us can rest easy on anything concerning pets hence my decision to not get another one for quite some time.
Comment by Sandi K — May 25, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Very true Sandi. It takes a horrible emotional toll and we all suffer from PTS.
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Well here we go again….. let’s see: they have not taken into account adults with kidney disease, those who are immunecompromised, children. If I read the FSIS report from the FDA; since not all the animals died - melamine and it’s derivatives are okay. Therefore with the blessing of the FDA all contaminated food can be eaten!!!!
Rats: according to the studies on the internet had bladder lesions,liver lesions,tumors
Let’s see the hogs: some had nephritis, but they didn’t die so equate that to a human…you can have major disease but that’s okay, you won’t die immeadiately.
Chickens: no significant tissue changes or crystals: I would feel a whole lot better if it said none found.
And, they still haven’t answered the question of what happens in an acid gut with multiple chemicals…
Are they nuts!!!! I guess they are saying: run along, be happy!
Katie
Comment by Katie — May 25, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
straybaby:
“An order of magnitude” is basically multiplying by ten. So 10 is an order of magnitude larger than1. 100 is an order of magnitude larger than 10 and 2 orders of magnitude larger than 1. And so on.
Another way to think about it is that each time you move the decimal to the right, you’ve increased the number by an order of magnitude (1.0 to 10, 10.0 to 100, 100.0 to 1000, and so on.)
Comment by The OTHER Pat — May 25, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Someone said “they aren’t making money off of me”, and another person just mentioned that they are being more careful of what they eat.
I started doing the same from the first recalls until now. Both dh and me have commented on how much better we feel physically. We are ingesting less of “something” because some things that we had attributed to old age, maybe arthritis, etc have almost disappeared. It is unbelievable.
I keep putting off a doctor appointment I have because some of the symptoms that we haven’t been able to find a cause for in the last 1.5 years are gone now. I want to see how much improvement I can make before I go in - if X amount of these health issues were related to food, and now that I eat differently, they are gone, well, let’s see how much more progress we can make.
And I changed what I ate because of the recall, and my fears about what I learned was in the food, you know, that might bring me harm in the future. I guess I had gotten so used to feeling poorly that I really didn’t think my health problems could be food related. And it is clear that some of them were.
Wow - just wow.
Comment by TC — May 25, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Well I was on a kick last year of eating soup that I put those dried fungus in and shopped at an Asian Market and ate lots of wiggly stuff with “gluten” everything in it. Gads, I shudder to think what I was eating. And yes, at one point my entire body ached and I do wonder now if it was the food!
Comment by Linda — May 25, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
I went from scary active life of horse riding, atv’g and hiking for miles, to having every square inch of my body aching every day, some days more, some less, but always some pain. Sometimes I was not able to get out of the house to do much other than chores, and frankly, I had little to none of my former strength to do them. Some days weak as a kitten, others days dizzy with constant lightheadedness. I looked like my grandfather when I walked. This is only a highlight of all that was going wrong. And otherwise, I was fortunate to have been exceptionally healthy my entire life, so this was a bad news for me.
Now I am back to hiking, horses and atv’g. I do a daily walk of 2-4 miles right out the back door - through the high desert hills, ravines, rocks, etc, not easy stuff. I am not back to the distances I used to cover or the level of activity, but I am pushing to see just how “recovered” I can get:)
The only change is my diet. Is this proof positive? I guess only time will tell, and still there is no way to be certain. But you think I will ever change and go back to eating and cooking as I used to? Oh, no, no, no, never. I really believed I would never be as active as I had been, and look at me now.
Comment by TC — May 25, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
The FDA and the other federal agencies are part of and run by the executive branch of the government. Congress has the power of the purse but it is not easy to use in a timely fashion.
The EXECUTIVE branch is responsible for enforcing laws. MANY agencies are not enforcing laws that are viewed by the Administration as anti-business. You have to take the agencies to court to get them to enforce laws or cut off their funding (to punish them). The FDA and almost all federal agencies are run by political appointees, NOT by civil servants.
The FDA could be tougher but it won’t be. It doesn’t want to be tough because its masters have given the orders, “don’t be tough, don’t protect the consumer, protect the interests of business, don’t talk tough to China”.
Slamming the FDA is indirect slamming - the FDA is doing what it is told to do by the Administration. The Administration is the BOSS, not the agency.
Comment by MFEMFEM — May 25, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
I’m on a year long boycott of chicken, fish and pork. Beef purchases now are only “grass fed natural” beef, veggies and fruits are organic or at least sourced in the US. Milk is hormone free.
Food shopping has gotten more expensive..but well worth it IMHO
Comment by newlurker — May 25, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Two creditable animal doctors have raised the issue of genetically-modified glutens as possible culprit in poisoning our pets. They also touch on other issues raised here:
Largest Pet Food Recall Ever: Full Inquiry Called for and Accountability
Michael Fox (DSc, PhD, BVet Med, MRCVS)
http://tinyurl.com/28r4ud
Pet Food Recall- The Tip of the Iceberg
John Symes, DVM
http://www.dogtorj.net/id76.html
Comment by Rita — May 25, 2007 @ 6:26 pm