Pet food recall: Liveblogging 5/17 FDA press conference
By Christie Keith
May 17, 2007
- If you have a sick pet or a question on your pet’s health, call your veterinarian.
- If you’re new to the site, please check out our general information page (includes information on recalled foods).
(Update: Here’s the transcript.)
I’ll be liveblogging the FDA’s joint press conference with the USDA and CBP (Customs and Border Protection) at 2 PM Eastern Time.
They asked us to sign in early today, so expect a much more in-depth review of the music played while we’re on hold than I’ve been able to provide in the past.
Present will be:
* David Acheson, M.D., assistant commissioner for food protection, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
* Curt Mann, D.V.M., deputy undersecretary for food safety, USDA
* Vera Adams, executive director, Commercial Targeting and Enforcement, CBP
* Stephen Sundlof, D.V.M., Ph.D., director, Center for Veterinary Medicine, FDA
* Michael Rogers, director, Division of Field Investigations, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
* Michael Herndon, press officer, Office of Public Affairs, FDA
As always: I’m doing this live. There will be typos and misspelled names. Anything in quotation marks is a direct quote, but everything else is a paraphrase, often a very rough one. An official transcript should be posted on the USDA website within 12-48 hours of the briefing, and we’ll link to it as soon as it’s available.
If you are reading this during the briefing, just hit your browser’s “refresh” button now and then to see the new material.
Oh dear. Billy Joel. “Always a Woman to Me.” If the melamine don’t get you, the EZ listening will.
Diana Ross, “Missing You.” Ooo oooo oooo.
Peter Cetera, “One Good Woman.” Fortunately cut off by the beginning of the briefing.
Here we go.
Michael Herndon introduces.
David Acheson: Couple of areas. First relates to information on status of fish farms and hatcheries. Second is on investigations of imports and domestic.
General overview. Information we’ve provided before. Skreeting has recalled fish feed. From “same company that led to the pet food recalls.” Very low risk of harm from eating fish fed tainted feed. Skreeting had 198 customers in the US. Two commercial fish farms, the rest are hatcheries. Will say more in a minute. One in Hawaii, one in Washington state.
Kona Blue is Hawaiian fish farm testing of the fish proved negative for melamine.
Firm in WA is American Gold (?). Had their fish tested by FDA and also is negative for melamine.
FDA was not able to test any of the feed at American Gold because it had all been consumed.
At hatcheries: Very tiny fish. We believe there is no public health concern. Destiny of these fish is to be released to public waters, not directly into commerce.
Import alert update. Since 4/27, total of 46 shipments of vegetable protein from China. To date, none of the importers have proven the shipments are melamine-free. Before released, FDA will verify and may order samples to confirm any written reports. “They remain in detention until we are satisfied.”
Domestic assignment. I missed a bit here, because I was getting in the question queue.
Vera Adams: CBP’s efforts to assess if additional contaminated gluten products had entered the US. CBP has been testing all wheat and corn gluten and all RPC destined for human and animal consumption. 4/30 from China, expanded to all countries after that. Been analyzing.
Samples representing about 80 percent of all shippers has been taken, and about 80 percent of those have been tested, and so far all negative for melamine and related compounds. Will report when it’s all tested.
CBP is evaluating if sampling process can be converted to a random sampling protocol. Every effort is being made to safeguard public health and safety.
Open for questions.
[Continues after jump]
Boston Globe: Chinese gov’t stated that US shouldn’t take stringent action against exporters apart from the suppliers already implicated.
Acheson: With regard to our import alert, I want to provide some historical background. Began with wheat gluten, then RPC. Historically there have been problems with corn gluten in other parts of the world. The agency felt is was important to put the import alert in place and focus on vegetable protein concentrates from China. We’ll do that until we’re satisfied the problem has been taken care of. Primary mission is to safeguard the public health.
Boston Globe: Is negative test on fish at the threshhold of the test, or are they clearly negative?
Acheson: It is below the limit of detection using our most sensitive methodology.
Christie Keith: You have stated previously that the FDA was actually sampling and testing pet foods being imported from China. How many samples have been tested, and have any of them been positive, and is that sampling still being conducted?
Acheson: Not aware of how many, but none have been positive. Still ongoing.
Julie Schmitt, USA Today: Is customs testing samples they are detaining? (Missed answer.)
Julie Schmitt: Who is importer of Cereal Byproducts RPC?
Mike Rogers: Not prepared to name. Don’t know what value would be to name.
CBS News: Asked for more details on Customs sampling. Are you TESTING?
Vera Adams: Sampling and sending to FDA.
David Acheson: None have been released. (Sorry, missed a little when screen took too long to refresh.)
Abigail Goldman, LA Times: Those shipments that have been detained — 46 of how many? Tested JUST for melamine?
Acheson: 46 of 46. Any import of veg protein concentrate of China is detained. No vegetable protein concentrate from China. Also testing for melamine and melamine related compounds.
Goldman: Cyanuric acid?
Acheson: That is a melamine related compound, yes.
Steve Dale: Public officials say there were problems getting visas, but you’ve said there were not. And other facilities in China have used melamine as well. How can we be sure there are not other facilities involved? How cooperative have the Chinese “really, really” been, and how sure can we be especially be that products, esp pet products, how long before people can be reassured when they see veg proteins on pet food labels?
Acheson: Obviously we always want investigations done yesterday. There are certain protocols, things take time. It went as fast as it could have. It’s easy to say after the fact, why did it take so long. But it was typical of these investigations, not slower than normal.
Could this be going on in other areas and manufacturers in China, of course. That’s why we have the import alert. If we were to find anything in the pet food sampling (note: or does he mean animal feed and domestic? not sure), then we’d consider an import alert.
Steve Dale: Where are you with the discussions and can you offer up any specifics?
Acheson: Suggested MOU currently in negotiation with China.
Washington Post: 46 shipments, none have proved melamine free. How many suppliers or manufacturers have produced these 46 shipments. CBP collected samples, none containing melamine, are they from places other than China?
Acheson: 46 shipments detained as part of the import alert, detaining vegetable protein concentrates from China ONLY. We are only aware of 46 that have come into country, all have been detained. For that to move forward, we have to receive information they are negative for melamine. We CAN analyze if we’re not satisfied, but normally FDA does not do that testing themselves. So far, none of those 46 have moved on, pending results of analysis.
WaPo: Samples CBP is testing, where do they come from?
Adams: From ALL countries, wheat and corn gluten, and RPC.
Marketwatch: What if fish in China are being fed this over a long time, we import $2 billion of fish from China every year. Testing?
Acheson: Good question. We do have a mechanism to test fish for melamine. That testing program for Chinese fish is “getting under way, and some of that testing is happening as we speak.” But no import alert.
Marketwatch: Will there be effort to augment human health risk assessment to include interaction between melamine and cyanuric acid?
Acheson: The way that’s been dealt with is to do an additive rather than synergistic analysis. I don’t believe the risk assessment has taken into account a synergism — various scientists haven’t been able to demonstrate there is a synergism. If they are synergistic, you may have a three-fold or four-fold problem. No indication our scientists are aware of that these compounds are synergistic. Additive, yes.
Washington Times: Chinese said US authorities are satisifed with inspection of two companies. Is that true?
Acheson: Investigators are writing report. I haven’t seen it. The two companies were “locked up, cleaned out.” That’s old news. Haven’t seen the report in terms of who is satisified with what. Are continuing to look for melamine type compounds in veg protein concentrate. Will keep doing that.
Washington Times: So is Chinese statement accurate or inaccurate? AP yesterday said investigators turned up no signs of chemical, FDA investigators expressed satisfaction with testing and controls at Chinese companies.
Acheson: We have continued concerns with veg protein concentrates from China, that’s why we have the import alert.
Washington Times: How long did it actually take to get the visas, and are you sure Chinese authorities did not take any concealing actions?
Rogers: We don’t know what happened before we got there. Time it takes to do a foreign inspection, we don’t have the authority in the foreign arena we do in the domestic. We need permission of gov’t and the firm. These products are not under our jurisdiction. Explains some of the challenges and time issues. With respect to what we were able to do in China. AQSIQ discussions confirmed the two companies were no longer manufacturing. They’ll be engaging in activitie to ensure products coming out of China.
Roebuck: Tonnage of 46 shipments, and what percentage we grow in US and what percentatge imported?
Acheson: You won’t like my answer. I don’t know the tonnage, don’t know the percentages. Given enough time, but not off the top of my head.
Roebuck: Update on the fifth contaminant?
Acheson: Don’t know what you’re alluding to?
Roebuck: Redacted document.
Acheson: That fifth contaminant was a screen we utilize, a chemical screen that we use that looks for a while range of things. Covers a range of chemicals that go well beyond melamine. Redacted due to sensitive nature, don’t want to telegraph the world what we’re looking for.
Baltimore Sun: Fish in hatcheries still being held?
Acheson: Yes.
Baltimore Sun: If not doing random sampling before, what were you doing?
Adams: More deliberate target than statistically random type of sample. May do intensive review of China, but other countries may revert to something more statistically randomly generated. Still discussing.
Congress Daily: Compare working with China to other countries?
Acheson: Mexican gov’t and cantaloupes. Salmonella contamination. Gave them technical advice and assistance on good ag practices. Involved site visits. It worked. Put a lot of things in place, they produced a safer product. FDA kept testing imported cantaloupes periodically, saw another problem, went back to Mexico and worked with them some more. That’s an example of how we work with other countries.
Congress Daily: Have any idea might be wrapping up talks with China?
Acheson: No, ongoing. Can’t say how quickly will reach endpoint.
Bloomberg News: How long plan on testing these products? When does this end? Deadline?
Acheson: Our import alert for Chinese veg protein concentrates, we’ve talked about what it takes to release a detained shipment. It’s laid out in the import alert what they have to do to be absolved of having to go through the import alert process. And that’s when it would end.
Bloomberg News: Please go back over dog chews mentioned earlier today?
Acheson: In our domestic protein surveillance assignment, we collect samples and raise awareness. We collected 63 samples. 37 negative, 23 pending, 3 couldn’t be analyzed. Mixing of rawhide dog chews and gel capsules. Weren’t targeting specifically anyway.
Bloomberg: States:
Acheson: AZ, CA, CT, Iowa, MN, NH. Assignment continuing.
NPR: What other food ingredients might be targeted, additives?
Acheson: Good question. Wondering what other foods could be targeted by deliberate acts against the US. Food ingredient like wheat gluten wouldnt’ ordinarily be considered high risk. This has made us think in a different direction. Currently looking at what other ingredients we might need to think about. We’re looking into it.
NPR: What are you doing?
Acheson: Looking at ingredients, that sort of thing. Linking it with food processing type expertise, what’s a widely used ingredient we use a lot of.
Reporter: Regarding 46 shipments, how is testing done. Is protein in bulk, bags, how much per shipment. Large amounts?
Acheson: There is no specific strategy that FDA is going to describe. Company has to use their own or third party expertise, what’s a reasonable sampling strategy, do it, present it to us, if we’re not comfortable, we’ll say no. It varies.
Reporter: How many tests per shipment. Again, is this protein in bulk, bags?
Acheson: It comes in in all kinds of forms. Size varies. Company has to figure this out. We’re not going to tell them, they need to do it and present us with the analytical results of that.
CNN: You can test for melamine related compounds including cyanuric acid in fish flesh but not pork or chicken flesh? Are there technical reasons for this, or does this reflect the difference in the feeds?
Acheson: Assays we have are testing the feed and the raw ingredients, the wheat gluten and the RPC. Which is more akin to wheat flour, but that’s a tangent. We developed assays to measure mel, cyanuric acid, ammeline, and ammelide. Four different chemicals all related to melamine. Melamine breaks down to these other things. We dev’d assays to measure levels of all four of those in certain ingredients and in animal food.
We want to be able to measure all four in muscle tissue. Much more of a challenge than in feed. They’ve developed assays to measure melamine itself, and that’s it, in the fish and hogs. Working to be able to measure cyanuric acid, but not there yet. (NOTE: DID NOT MENTION POULTRY HERE.) Working with muscle and fat is more difficult than wheat gluten or wheat flour.
CNN: Wondering if you could use the other half of the FDA, because pharmaceutical companies do have expertise in animal toxicology, manufacturing practices, as you probably know, the pharmaceutical companies have better equipment — is there any possibility your outreach includes larger labs in dealing with these complicated problems dealing with muscle and fat of various animals?
Acheson: Good question. This is not just a foods group. One of the difficulties of getting at these issues is handling food matrixes. They are difficult to work with. I certainly have a lot of faith that our team has been looking in every direction to solve as quickly as possible. I will pass this on in case they haven’t thought of it, but I would anticipate that they have.
Conference concludes.
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Christie, if they’re taking music requests may I suggest E.’s favorite,
“Tainted Love” or mine “Bad to the Bone”?
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Or there’s always “One Bourbon, One Scotch and One Beer”
Comment by Kim — May 17, 2007 @ 10:59 am
I just have regular “refresh,” not “refresh now ant then”…
Comment by mike — May 17, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Too bad she’s stuck with EZ listening. Eeeuuw.
Pass Christie some tequila, Kim. I think she’ll need it.
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:01 am
*passes Christie a brand new bottle of tequila, limes, and salt* (no glass, just chug from the bottle Christie…)
Comment by Kim — May 17, 2007 @ 11:02 am
“OooooOoooo ooo ooo … I MISSING you .. tell me why the road turns … “
Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 17, 2007 @ 11:02 am
Cripes. Just like their protocols, even their music is dated. Or is it muz—……..the name we cannot type out loud?
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:04 am
Remember, after everything they say, just add to yourself “and nicotine isn’t harmful either”.
That’ll put it all in context.
Comment by Kim — May 17, 2007 @ 11:12 am
I wrote about 25 of the journalists who have participated in these new conferences in the past and told them they should really request a format change (I’m tired of Christie being left out of the questions and the “one question, no follow ups” phone set up. This is a standard media control technique and it needs to stop when we are talking about a government agency and food safety.)
I think they got the emails, but it was too late to make changes for today’s conference, but I think it is a reasonable thing for the FDA and USDA to do.
We’ll see.
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Who the blazes is American Gold?!
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:13 am
FDA will verify and may order samples to confirm any written reports. “They remain in detention until we are satisfied.”
They MAY order samples??????? Lost for words here……..
Comment by Terri — May 17, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Maybe we should have FDA/USDA bingo.
dilution factor - Drink!
good cooperation with chinese - two drinks.
Acheson, “Clarifies” some number that just confused things, chug.
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 11:15 am
You know, I think we all missed the lesson called “what you don’t know won’t hurt you”. No wonder we’re so out of control. ;-)
Comment by Kim — May 17, 2007 @ 11:16 am
i’ve got some cat urine we can send to the docks . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Missing You? Is this a farce or something? Yeah, big guys, I’m missing somebody, my sweet pup, while you twaddle and twiddle!
Comment by Nancy Nielsen — May 17, 2007 @ 11:16 am
spocko - what’s the plan everytime Ache says “it’s complicated”?
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Re: American Gold
“American Gold Seafoods, which operates several fish farms in Washington, said it checked with its main fish-feed supplier, Ewos, to make sure its feed was not affected.
Ross Grierson, president of EWOS Canada, the supplier, said, “We don’t use wheat gluten in any of our fish feed from any source.”
“We’re working to set up independent testing of fish,” said Kevin Bright, American Gold’s permit coordinator.”
Above from Seattle.pi article on May 8th:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ish09.html
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Is “complicated” a euphemism for “we don’t want to tell you?
Comment by Susan — May 17, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:16 am
you listen for sounds of screaming coming from Brooklyn . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:18 am
*chairfall*
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:19 am
When Ache say, “It’s complicated”
Everyone downs a tequila Jell-O Brand® gelatin shot (made from 100 percent US hooves!) and we all eat our worms.
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 11:20 am
http://www.americangoldseafoods.com/
from their home page:
“American Gold Seafoods operates two hatcheries near Rochester Washington and has 120 pens off Bainbridge Island, Port Angeles, Cypress Island and Hope Island all within the waters of Washington states Puget Sound.
At our offshore salmon farms, the fish dine on a mixture of anchovy, herring, wheat, soybeans and corn. They receive no hormones or steroids and are NOT genetically engineered. They swim in pens filled with one-half to two-thirds the number of salmon in typical salmon farms.
All Natural “Organically Managed” Salmon “
add to that, with only slight traces of plastic
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 11:21 am
Vera Adams:
“CBP is evaluating if sampling process can be converted to a random sampling protocol. Every effort is being made to safeguard public health and safety.”
Maybe it’s just me, but isn’t there an oxymoron buried in there?
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 11:21 am
dang, talk about a great way to tank some businesses quick . . . China exports 70% of fish from their fish farms . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:23 am
“The agency felt is was important to put the import alert in place and focus on vegetable protein concentrates from China.”
gee, would have been nice to add ALL protein concentrates, like MPC’s . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:26 am
Ache & “ongoing” - there’s a chug if ever I heard one.
Pass the bottle Kim!
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:26 am
“Regular reader Mike, who sent this link along, wants us to hammer Ekedahl with e-mail” Tell the PFI and North Amer. companies “I Will NO LONGER buy and pet-foods manufactured with cheap IMPORTED ingredients” The entire pet-food in So. Africa was vowed to not use cheap imports, as has Royal Canin. Write and tell the PFI. And tell all the pet-people in your address-book to also! (‘reader-mike’)
Comment by mike — May 17, 2007 @ 11:28 am
*passes new bottle to Ally*
Comment by Kim — May 17, 2007 @ 11:33 am
Ache: “If we were to find anything in the pet food sampling (note: or does he mean animal feed and domestic? not sure), then we’d consider an import alert.”
With all that’s come to light so far, why oh why is he only saying “consider”? AAARGH. I feel another Foster’s Farms chickens GACK coming on.
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:35 am
Not important to count dead pets, get all the poison already on the stores shelves out, not important to inform the public that has no idea about these farce “briefings”( lucky are the ignorant for they shall buy MORE poison before we are forced to figure out how to sell it to some hapless and hopefully non internet using farmers)not important to tell the truth about how long this has been going on (geez, it is a good thing we don’t do this lying in front of a camera anymore!) not important to do what we are sucking tax payer money to do.
Comment by E. Hamilton — May 17, 2007 @ 11:35 am
Thanks Kim.
You are my newest hero.
*chugs voraciously*
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 11:36 am
Oooooh E., great idea for a post on my blog. A list of everything that “Is Not Important”. I’ve been trying to figure out a good way to summarize everything, this just might be it.
Comment by Kim — May 17, 2007 @ 11:39 am
Wow, too sensitive. Does he work for the CIA?
Comment by Susan — May 17, 2007 @ 11:43 am
“Acheson: Good question. We do have a mechanism to test fish for melamine. That testing program for Chinese fish is “getting under way, and some of that testing is happening as we speak.” But no import alert.”
WTF?! why is it my head explodes every time he says “good question”?!
now we know why states are banning China fish . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:44 am
Can they tell us, the consumer, what they’re looking for?
Comment by Susan — May 17, 2007 @ 11:44 am
We don’t know what happened before we got there.
*WE* DO!!!!
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Help us Science Journalists!
Where is Elizabeth Weise? This just sounds like doublespeak to me. But I learned my science on another planet where we didn’t teach spin.
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 11:47 am
Oh by the way about those safe 20 million chickens and 56,000 hogs. Which company made them? They are safe, right?
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 11:52 am
we don’t need to worry about the 20 mil chickens spocko!haven’t you noticed they went *poof* from the planet last media update?!
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 11:54 am
oH PUhleeeeze, tell us Guelph cyanuric & melamine crystals aren’t synergistic.. send the FDA pictures!!!
Comment by Ann H. — May 17, 2007 @ 11:55 am
Riddle me this Straybaby. If the chickens are safe and if the hogs are safe why won’t they tell us the names of the company that has processed them and where they sent them to?
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 11:57 am
sorry spocko, they didn’t cover that in my FDA Speak 101 class . . .
What I did learn was, my household will not be eating any of it.
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
“Acheson: Good question.”
*KaBOOOOOOM!welcome to the death of straybaby’s brain*
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
That concludes the briefing?! Oh-my-gosh, why did they even waste their time on such a farce?!
I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m totally blown away. What a joke.
Comment by A.C. — May 17, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Clearly “Good Question” will have to be on our drinking game bingo list.
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
You will note how well the timing of Tuesday’s press release was managed. By dropping it after the conference they were able to avoid talking about it on Tuesday and then today they didn’t mention it at all because it was old news and they had other things to focus on.
Well done! That is the kind of information control methods that earn you the big bucks!
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Unbelievable. “Good question”, “it’s complicated”, “it’s complex”. ah well, at least he has gone down the ever popular road of “it’s hard work”.
although this was a good one, “You won’t like my answer. I don’t know the tonnage, don’t know the percentages. ” he doesn’t know the volume of what he’s up against, perhaps?!
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
We really need the idiot to english translator here.
Idiot-complicated = English- How smart can you be if you are listening to us lie?
Idiot-investigation= English- we aren’t gonna tell you, neener, neener, neener! See also FU.
Comment by E. Hamilton — May 17, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
1. “good question” must be added to the drinking game.
2. most appropriate lead-in music is “Send in the Clowns”
I’m particularly troubled by the way they behave as though the poultry never existed.
and i still want to know what level of ppb melamine and/or related compounds it would take for them to declare something unfit for consumption.
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
“I’m particularly troubled by the way they behave as though the poultry never existed.”
amazing, isn’t it?! many things about this whole situation have me sitting back in total disbelief.
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
“Acheson: Good question. Wondering what other foods could be targeted by deliberate acts against the US. Food ingredient like wheat gluten wouldnt’ ordinarily be considered high risk. This has made us think in a different direction. Currently looking at what other ingredients we might need to think about. We’re looking into it.”
Gee, you mean like anything not manufactured here??? No wait…we’ll just study it until a bunch more animals/people get sick, and then we’ll *REACT* and figure out which other things we need to test… Heavens, no use testing stuff we don’t need to test or doing any of that *PROactive* nonsense!
(These guys look more like the Keystone Cops every day.)
Comment by hildiesmom — May 17, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
Hey Gina/Christie! Is that bone safe?! You are aware of the rawhide issues in Chinese imports, right?! ;)
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
What dog chews and gelatin capsules??
please tell me they aren’t gel capsules containing fish oil.
I know: good question, we’re looking into that, it’s complicated…
Katie
Comment by Katie — May 17, 2007 @ 12:23 pm
“Acheson: Assays we have are testing the feed and the raw ingredients, the wheat gluten and the RPC. Which is more akin to wheat flour, but that’s a tangent. “
OK, so before the RPC wasn’t RPC at all, it was wheat flour, right? Now it’s just “akin” to wheat flour? I really do wish they would say what they really mean and what they really found.
Comment by hildiesmom — May 17, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
i wondered that also Katie, but i thought i had missed an earlier comment about it due to exploding head syndrome . . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
spocko -
I sure hope you’re keeping an up to date list of the bingo-take-a-swig rules. If future press conferences continue in this vein (and who are we to doubt they will), methinks we’re gonna need those rules handy.
*memo to self: buy stock in tequila*
Comment by Ally — May 17, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
Pat wondered how many ppb would make feed/grain fractions unfit for consumption. I wonder what they are actually doing with grain shipments that test positive for *any* melamine/components? Assuming that *none* would be suitable for human consumption, are they allowing some at a certain level to go to animals? Or are they destroying all of it?
Comment by hildiesmom — May 17, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
Where are the chickens? At Menu Foods?
Comment by Susan — May 17, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
Riddle me this bat fans:
Are the FDA or USDA breaking any laws by not revealing the names of the poultry processors?
(I seem to understand that is the only standard that really matters.)
They have designed and created a test that has enabled the chicken and pigs to get the inspection stamp. They are now fit for human consumption.
I think if someone does ask the question they have a good answer
“Not prepared to name. Don’t know what value would be to name.”
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
Felony Animal Cruelty and Child Endangerment?!
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
hildiesmom, i wasn’t thinking specifically of grains. they have said several times, in many different ways, that the livestock released poses low risk… would have to eat 800 lbs, safety factor of 250, etc. they also said that one meat sample (pork) tested between 10-12 ppb, and that others tested less than 50 ppb… what i want to know is:
how many ppb would usda have to see before they say no to release of the meat?
i would be interetsted to know if that magic number is different or the same for vegetable proteins/grains too, but i want someone to *name that number*, for *something*, instead of dancing around it all the time. remember now, when this all started the number was zero… then they found a reference in an epa document that allowed a certain amount, expressed in ppm
BUT, what is *their* number?
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
Want to hear a funny?
I, yes me, THOUGHT I had found a decent pet food company, I was hoping I had found one. Small company, no imported products, looked good.
And then, I thought, better check some more.
And this company belongs to the PFI and uses the money from me , and you, and everyone they can fool into buying a product to pay the wages of someone to insult us and lie!!!
Duane Ekedahl gets paid by every bag or can of pet food you buy from a member of the PFI and I think I will stick to homecooking.
I really have so little left to cook , now that most of my pets are dead that it is no trouble at all.
Comment by E. Hamilton — May 17, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
U. S. Food and Drug Administration
Industry Activities Staff Booklet
August 2000
ACTION LEVELS FOR POISONOUS OR DELETERIOUS SUBSTANCES IN HUMAN FOOD AND ANIMAL FEED
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/fdaact.html
here is an interesting link
Comment by Deborah — May 17, 2007 @ 12:55 pm
Good question, pat. (LOL does that mean I have to take a swig?) But, at least for the FDA, since they are thinking ‘additive’, I imagine their number for grain or for meat would be the same. But then, that begs the question, what’s “safe”…. is there one number for pets and another for humans? I hear exactly what you’re saying…
Call me crazy…but I *personally* think the number oughta be zero… but, like you, think the ‘talking heads’ think we’re over-reacting.
As an aside, I have recently been listening to an audiobook of Michael J. Fox’s autobiography “Lucky Man”, which got me looking at the (possible) causes of Parkinson’s Disease. Pesticides are one theory—as a major contributor, or as a trigger. Makes you wonder if even the most minute ammounts of chemicals such as melamine might also contribute to acute and chronic diseases well beyond the renal failure experienced by the pets.
Dilution factor my a**.
Comment by hildiesmom — May 17, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
“Dilution factor my a**.”
that would be a great t-shirt/conversation starter!
*goes off to make one if hildiesmom doesn’t mind**
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/.....%20acid%20
another very interesting link at the fda website
re cyanuric acid
Comment by Deborah — May 17, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
So cyanuric acid is used as non-protein nitrogen in ruminant feed. Does feed cross over into pet food or is it only the other way?
Comment by Susan — May 17, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
didn’t *they* say they didn’t have a test for cyanuric acid in muscle meat? and also, since this may already exist in the meat we eat and we *know* it causes immediate crystals when mixed with melamine and cat urine, why would it be considered safe to eat melamine . . .never mind, dilution fa . .
Comment by straybaby — May 17, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
Does anyone know what problem there is with dog chews & gelatin capsules? This is the first I’ve heard of this…..geez, I thought I was out of the woods, so to speak, & now I find out that the rawhide may be tainted. I need to know what this is all about before I try to poison my dog once again with her treats. Just when I thought it might be time to relax a bit…..holy melamine, Batman.
I think I need two bottles of tequila please.
Comment by JanC — May 17, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
Haven’t read all the comments here but I see JanC’s remarks about dog chews and gelatin capsules. What about them. Now I can’t give my pets dog chews???
Comment by VJ — May 17, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
In April there was a dog chew recall because of Salmonella. Don’t know what else that could be.
Comment by Susan — May 17, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
straybaby said, “that would be a great t-shirt/conversation starter!
*goes off to make one if hildiesmom doesn’t mind**”
Consider it my gift to public education. ;-)
Comment by hildiesmom — May 17, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
Very interesting dance done about the “fifth” redacted chemical. They don’t want to give our enemies their secrets. What BS.
Comment by Annette — May 17, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
deborah, those are interesting links, but i can’t believe what i’m seeing in that second one. how can they possibly be allowing that percentage of additives in feed? something’s very screwy there.
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Im wondering where Sen Durbin went to, he started out with a bang on helping us and then poof he’s gone? How come no more Senate hearings on follow-up? We really need someone with some power to haul FDA in.
Comment by Sandi K — May 17, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
It’s actually very spooky and if you click on the Title CFR 21 link
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/.....Search.cfm
and actually look at other sections with what they will allow in people food -
well let’s just say “we’re all on borrowed time”
Comment by Deborah — May 17, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Dog chews and gel caps??
Bloomberg news said they had heard about it earlier today? Acheson said the gel caps were mixed in with the bones and weren’t specifically targeting. It was found with domestic protein surveillance? and assignment continuing?
I don’t see anything on the FDA site regarding and the April recall doesn’t mention gel caps.
Katie
Comment by Katie — May 17, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
C-Span3 - now showing Tuesday’s hearing..
Comment by Bee — May 17, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Okay why isn’t anyone asking in these press conferences what is going to happen to the chicken & pork by products of the animals that have been okay’d for processing even though they ate melamine tainted food? It was noted that the melamine is in the kidneys and other innards (included in by-products) but not in the muscle. My guess would be it will wind up back in the dog/cat foods.
Why hasn’t the press posed that question to David A?? Am I missing something?
Comment by JAG — May 17, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
“Dilution factor my a**.”
- Troublesome blogger
Now available in small, medium and large.
Comment by spocko — May 17, 2007 @ 1:47 pm
Sandi K, funny you should mention sen durbin, cuz i got an email from his pr machine today about the senate bill and amendments, except below
“Last week, the Senate passed important legislation to overhaul the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). As part of that bill, the Senate agreed to an amendment I offered to address many of the food safety problems that have become all too apparent over these past few weeks.
My amendment will do several important things:
Create an early warning system for all food products — including pet food — so we can identify potential food contamination problems much earlier and provide accessible product recall lists directly on the FDA website
Establish uniform standards, inspection processes, and better labeling of pet food — replacing today’s voluntary guidelines that manufacturers and individual states can choose to ignore
Improve the FDA’s ability to regulate imported food products — to deal with problems like the recent contaminated wheat gluten and rice protein shipments from China
The new FDA legislation will make a difference — but equally important is continuing to push the FDA to take their responsibility as guardians of our food supply seriously.
That’s why I hope you’ll invite your friends and family to join you, me, and thousands of other Americans, urging the FDA to step up their vigilance of our food supply — for companion animals and humans alike. “
fwiw
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
So—-if it wouldn’t be helpful to name names of the contaminated chickens, hogs that were released, how is it helpful and fair to name the fish farms?
And didn’t the American Gold fish farm say they didn’t feed contaminated feed?
Methinks it is becuz the chickens and hogs were Tyson and Cargill or some of the big boys, and USDA FDA is in their pocket!
Comment by Elaine — May 17, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
I still want to know who those other two companies are that bought tainted RPC (or whatever the H it was) from Cereal By-Products!!!
Comment by BengalMom — May 17, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Comment by pat — May 17, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
I got the same letter, too.
Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 17, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
Comment by pat @1:49pm
I also got Durbin’s letter.
Comment by VJ — May 17, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
Here is a thought about that fifth substance they were looking for but redacted from their published lists: My fiance comes from a top-secret military intell background. He says that the only thing he can think of that would be considered ‘sensitive’ would imply National Security ‘sentsitive’. He immediately thought of a light colored or white powdrey substance that would qualify- anthrax! Once we have turned over control of our supplies for our basic needs to a foreign entity- we are at great risk, individually and as a nation.
Scarry thought!
Comment by Carole (Wegie Mom) — May 18, 2007 @ 1:38 pm