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	<title>Comments on: Pet-food recall: Fun with numbers and Friday morning open thread</title>
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	<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/</link>
	<description>Blogging by a team of pet-care experts led by Dr. Marty Becker.</description>
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		<title>By: Lew Orban</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52741</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew Orban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 12:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52741</guid>
		<description>I guess I need to tell you all that this intentional poisoning of our food supply has been and will continue for years. When you go to a normal store here in the USA about 80% of all food found on the shelves has some type of GM food included in it. We do not know and these food companies have a strangle hold on our government and the FDA. To point out the reality of the human diet ...it is a mess. Our diversified diet is only because there are people who make money off what we eat....it has nothing to do with health...it has to do with money. There is only one diet I would recommend and that is the &quot;Eat Right for Your Blood Type&quot; diet and this diet is based on genetics research. Stay organic and use this plan and you will stay healthy. I have been raising sheep now for ten years. They have only eaten green grass growing on my property and alfalfa in the off season. My sheep have never been sick they have never received a shot or any type of medication.......please tell me why these sheep are always healthy and we humans are always sick? Its the garbage that we eat and that are sold on every commercial on TV. We are being led around by our nose on purpose. See you the human are now a commodity and every thing you think, say, do, buy and want is worth money and control by someone else, It is not necessary for any of these companies to make you all sick. All they need to do is bring down a couple of you in the pen.....and create chronic illnesses that they can control and make money on for the long term. This pet food problem caused to much attention to the activity planned on purpose....they got caught and now the real cat is out of the bag. Companies like Novartis have been doing this for years. They create the poisons and then create the medication for you after you drop sick in the pen. Not everyone is needed...just enough of you to make a couple billion off the illness caused on purpose. This is not a world where ethics and morality reign supreme. There are very bad people involved in many industries and all they want is money and power and they really don&#039;t care how they get it...just as long as they do.

I have known this now for many years and have tried to share it with those around me and in e-mails. Often I find people do not care and are not willing to listen or change their ways. If it does not directly effect them then they do nothing....how stupid we all really are. Children are dropping like flies and climbing the walls and taking drugs to control their behavior in record numbers. Companies making these control drugs also make food that the children eat......how nice and how stupid are we? Here in the USA we live in a fantasy world created by the TV and commercials we are bombarded with daily....its a wonderful place of deception for control....of your life and brain. All of us need to take a deep breath and change the future for the better and take control of the world and environment around us. A movement of truth would be a movement long overdue.
Obewan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I need to tell you all that this intentional poisoning of our food supply has been and will continue for years. When you go to a normal store here in the USA about 80% of all food found on the shelves has some type of GM food included in it. We do not know and these food companies have a strangle hold on our government and the FDA. To point out the reality of the human diet &#8230;it is a mess. Our diversified diet is only because there are people who make money off what we eat&#8230;.it has nothing to do with health&#8230;it has to do with money. There is only one diet I would recommend and that is the &#8220;Eat Right for Your Blood Type&#8221; diet and this diet is based on genetics research. Stay organic and use this plan and you will stay healthy. I have been raising sheep now for ten years. They have only eaten green grass growing on my property and alfalfa in the off season. My sheep have never been sick they have never received a shot or any type of medication&#8230;&#8230;.please tell me why these sheep are always healthy and we humans are always sick? Its the garbage that we eat and that are sold on every commercial on TV. We are being led around by our nose on purpose. See you the human are now a commodity and every thing you think, say, do, buy and want is worth money and control by someone else, It is not necessary for any of these companies to make you all sick. All they need to do is bring down a couple of you in the pen&#8230;..and create chronic illnesses that they can control and make money on for the long term. This pet food problem caused to much attention to the activity planned on purpose&#8230;.they got caught and now the real cat is out of the bag. Companies like Novartis have been doing this for years. They create the poisons and then create the medication for you after you drop sick in the pen. Not everyone is needed&#8230;just enough of you to make a couple billion off the illness caused on purpose. This is not a world where ethics and morality reign supreme. There are very bad people involved in many industries and all they want is money and power and they really don&#8217;t care how they get it&#8230;just as long as they do.</p>
<p>I have known this now for many years and have tried to share it with those around me and in e-mails. Often I find people do not care and are not willing to listen or change their ways. If it does not directly effect them then they do nothing&#8230;.how stupid we all really are. Children are dropping like flies and climbing the walls and taking drugs to control their behavior in record numbers. Companies making these control drugs also make food that the children eat&#8230;&#8230;how nice and how stupid are we? Here in the USA we live in a fantasy world created by the TV and commercials we are bombarded with daily&#8230;.its a wonderful place of deception for control&#8230;.of your life and brain. All of us need to take a deep breath and change the future for the better and take control of the world and environment around us. A movement of truth would be a movement long overdue.<br />
Obewan</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52657</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 10:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52657</guid>
		<description>Has anyone started a wiki or blog dedicated to the human food poisoning story as well as begin research on what food companies are most probably safe to buy their brands of a wide array of products?

I am just at the beginning of researching the humam story and have begun a wiki page of safe human foods. wkis allow for others to create pages and comment on each page. You are more than welcome to join our family&#039;s effort by joining and adding pages and comments.

http://scottishterrier.wetpaint.com/page/Human+Food+Research

http://scottishterrier.wetpaint.com/page/Safe+Foods+Research

Please write me so we can share Human Research Story links and each other&#039;s research. Please write me so that we can add to safe food human food companies.

aboutdogsxpen@yahoo.com 

Please check into the &quot;organic&quot; movement that gives us humans a fighting chance to buy food for our families that aren&#039;t tainted w/ human growth hormone, pesticides, raised from Monsanto&#039;s killer seeds.

I do not want to buy human food to poison the human or pet family members in our home. All four of us are on human food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone started a wiki or blog dedicated to the human food poisoning story as well as begin research on what food companies are most probably safe to buy their brands of a wide array of products?</p>
<p>I am just at the beginning of researching the humam story and have begun a wiki page of safe human foods. wkis allow for others to create pages and comment on each page. You are more than welcome to join our family&#8217;s effort by joining and adding pages and comments.</p>
<p><a href="http://scottishterrier.wetpaint.com/page/Human+Food+Research" rel="nofollow">http://scottishterrier.wetpain.....d+Research</a></p>
<p><a href="http://scottishterrier.wetpaint.com/page/Safe+Foods+Research" rel="nofollow">http://scottishterrier.wetpain.....s+Research</a></p>
<p>Please write me so we can share Human Research Story links and each other&#8217;s research. Please write me so that we can add to safe food human food companies.</p>
<p><a href="mailto:aboutdogsxpen@yahoo.com">aboutdogsxpen@yahoo.com</a> </p>
<p>Please check into the &#8220;organic&#8221; movement that gives us humans a fighting chance to buy food for our families that aren&#8217;t tainted w/ human growth hormone, pesticides, raised from Monsanto&#8217;s killer seeds.</p>
<p>I do not want to buy human food to poison the human or pet family members in our home. All four of us are on human food.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52654</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 10:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52654</guid>
		<description>Has anyone starting feeding (whince) muckrakers such as Matt Drudge our story? Traditional newsmedia is more apt to get active if Matt and others pick up on this and go with it?

I&#039;m going to write as many blogs, websites, and wikis as possible to at least get them to post the FDA website and newsletter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone starting feeding (whince) muckrakers such as Matt Drudge our story? Traditional newsmedia is more apt to get active if Matt and others pick up on this and go with it?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to write as many blogs, websites, and wikis as possible to at least get them to post the FDA website and newsletter.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52631</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 09:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52631</guid>
		<description>50% in a statistical universe of 8000 is meaningful - about 8 times more meaningful than the average
political poll that makes headlines in the mainstream media. If the FDA has entered the data on
8000 interviews, and half of those are a report of a dead pet, the remaining 9000 calls that haven&#039;t
been entered in the data base should show a similar 50% with a margin of error of less than 1%. Half
of 17000 is 8500, which should be a legitimate number to report. 

Now, if someone was to follow up the FDA numbers with a poll of the usual sort, it should be possible
to get a statistically meaningful number of those who lost a pet to the food, and didn&#039;t bother to
call the FDA. I would be real surprised if the FDA numbers account for more than 1-2% of the total. So,
50 to 100 times what has been reported to the FDA is a LOT of pets.

And, yes, these guys are quite careful how they phrase things to lie while still telling the literal
truth. It&#039;s called spin, and most reporters aren&#039;t bright enough to nail them down with questions that
are hard to spin answers for. One might ask, &quot;With a known contaminant having entered the US food supply,
has the FDA inspected product intended for human consumption, how many such inspections have been conducted
and how many of them tested positive for melamine?&quot;.

While on the topic of crunching numbers, I&#039;ve been digging into some sites with raw data on various
substances. My objective was to try finding graphs similar to what is posted on the U of Goof site.
I haven&#039;t hit pay dirt on that one yet, but I would say the lines on their graphs should be a whole
lot closer together before claiming they have produced an identical substance in their labs. A very 
small variation in the lines can mean the difference between getting an antibiotic or a sleeping pill.
Close doesn&#039;t count. The useful tidbit of information I ran across was the LD 50 for aminopterin. 
It&#039;s 3 mg. per kg. in body weight. To translate: if the number applied to a 9 pound cat (4 kg.),
12/1000ths of a gram would be lethal to every other cat that received that dose. The New York lab
originally reported in excess of 40 parts per million of aminopterin in two out of three samples they
analyzed. In other words, a kilogram of food would contain over 40 mg. aminopterin, and a 5.5 ounce
can would contain 7 mg. aminopterin. While a little shy of the LD 50, it is certainly a dangerous
level of the toxin, and increasingly so for every subsequent daily dose.

Contrary to media reports at the time, I have yet to find ANY source confirming the theory that it
has ever been commercially produced for rat poison ANYWHERE. From what I&#039;ve been able to dig up, it
was patented for that purpose long ago, but was too expensive to produce to make it feasible for a
competitive, marketable product. The fact of the matter is the substance is so unusual it&#039;s hard to
find detailed information on the stuff at all. As close as I can tell, there is only one company in
the world producing aminopterin with any sort of commercial intent, and they are doing so on an
experimental basis with the help of some sweetheart government grants for cancer research.

As bad as the melamine issue is, it doesn&#039;t begin to compare with the question of how such a fantastically
rare and sophisticated toxin - a thousand times more lethal than Melamine - ended up in food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>50% in a statistical universe of 8000 is meaningful - about 8 times more meaningful than the average<br />
political poll that makes headlines in the mainstream media. If the FDA has entered the data on<br />
8000 interviews, and half of those are a report of a dead pet, the remaining 9000 calls that haven&#8217;t<br />
been entered in the data base should show a similar 50% with a margin of error of less than 1%. Half<br />
of 17000 is 8500, which should be a legitimate number to report. </p>
<p>Now, if someone was to follow up the FDA numbers with a poll of the usual sort, it should be possible<br />
to get a statistically meaningful number of those who lost a pet to the food, and didn&#8217;t bother to<br />
call the FDA. I would be real surprised if the FDA numbers account for more than 1-2% of the total. So,<br />
50 to 100 times what has been reported to the FDA is a LOT of pets.</p>
<p>And, yes, these guys are quite careful how they phrase things to lie while still telling the literal<br />
truth. It&#8217;s called spin, and most reporters aren&#8217;t bright enough to nail them down with questions that<br />
are hard to spin answers for. One might ask, &#8220;With a known contaminant having entered the US food supply,<br />
has the FDA inspected product intended for human consumption, how many such inspections have been conducted<br />
and how many of them tested positive for melamine?&#8221;.</p>
<p>While on the topic of crunching numbers, I&#8217;ve been digging into some sites with raw data on various<br />
substances. My objective was to try finding graphs similar to what is posted on the U of Goof site.<br />
I haven&#8217;t hit pay dirt on that one yet, but I would say the lines on their graphs should be a whole<br />
lot closer together before claiming they have produced an identical substance in their labs. A very<br />
small variation in the lines can mean the difference between getting an antibiotic or a sleeping pill.<br />
Close doesn&#8217;t count. The useful tidbit of information I ran across was the LD 50 for aminopterin.<br />
It&#8217;s 3 mg. per kg. in body weight. To translate: if the number applied to a 9 pound cat (4 kg.),<br />
12/1000ths of a gram would be lethal to every other cat that received that dose. The New York lab<br />
originally reported in excess of 40 parts per million of aminopterin in two out of three samples they<br />
analyzed. In other words, a kilogram of food would contain over 40 mg. aminopterin, and a 5.5 ounce<br />
can would contain 7 mg. aminopterin. While a little shy of the LD 50, it is certainly a dangerous<br />
level of the toxin, and increasingly so for every subsequent daily dose.</p>
<p>Contrary to media reports at the time, I have yet to find ANY source confirming the theory that it<br />
has ever been commercially produced for rat poison ANYWHERE. From what I&#8217;ve been able to dig up, it<br />
was patented for that purpose long ago, but was too expensive to produce to make it feasible for a<br />
competitive, marketable product. The fact of the matter is the substance is so unusual it&#8217;s hard to<br />
find detailed information on the stuff at all. As close as I can tell, there is only one company in<br />
the world producing aminopterin with any sort of commercial intent, and they are doing so on an<br />
experimental basis with the help of some sweetheart government grants for cancer research.</p>
<p>As bad as the melamine issue is, it doesn&#8217;t begin to compare with the question of how such a fantastically<br />
rare and sophisticated toxin - a thousand times more lethal than Melamine - ended up in food.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52585</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 05:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52585</guid>
		<description>Comment by CherCat — May 4, 2007 @ 9:02 am 

Bodeen isn&#039;t entirely incorrect, even though there&#039;s an edited version of the article you cited, stating, &quot;This version CORRECTS that melamine causes kidney failure, not liver damage&quot; currently on the internet site.

Other chemicals can often be confused with melamine. Case in point: aminopterin. Aminopterin DOES cause liver damage, so I would suspect that it&#039;s possible for melamine to cause liver damage as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment by CherCat — May 4, 2007 @ 9:02 am </p>
<p>Bodeen isn&#8217;t entirely incorrect, even though there&#8217;s an edited version of the article you cited, stating, &#8220;This version CORRECTS that melamine causes kidney failure, not liver damage&#8221; currently on the internet site.</p>
<p>Other chemicals can often be confused with melamine. Case in point: aminopterin. Aminopterin DOES cause liver damage, so I would suspect that it&#8217;s possible for melamine to cause liver damage as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabiya</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52452</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabiya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 02:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52452</guid>
		<description>Comment by Lew Orban — May 4, 2007 @ 7:11 pm 

I started giving my cats a jar of Gerber baby food every few days during a transition to a raw diet.  Some vets even recommended doing that until all the recalls were determined.  I noticed that Gerber uses cornstarch in some of their jar foods.  I researched cornstarch and found out that the vast majority of it is produced in China.  I have now emailed Gerber twice and phoned them twice asking where they source it from.  I have not been contacted by them yet and it&#039;s been over two weeks.  I suspect it&#039;s from China....
Oh yeah, don&#039;t forget autism in children is now 1 in 100 births as opposed to 1 in 10,000 births a decade ago...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment by Lew Orban — May 4, 2007 @ 7:11 pm </p>
<p>I started giving my cats a jar of Gerber baby food every few days during a transition to a raw diet.  Some vets even recommended doing that until all the recalls were determined.  I noticed that Gerber uses cornstarch in some of their jar foods.  I researched cornstarch and found out that the vast majority of it is produced in China.  I have now emailed Gerber twice and phoned them twice asking where they source it from.  I have not been contacted by them yet and it&#8217;s been over two weeks.  I suspect it&#8217;s from China&#8230;.<br />
Oh yeah, don&#8217;t forget autism in children is now 1 in 100 births as opposed to 1 in 10,000 births a decade ago&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lew Orban</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52408</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew Orban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 02:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52408</guid>
		<description>Here is the deal this story is much bigger than just melamine. You need to check out Novartis who owns Gerber...the baby food maker! Novartis also owns Ciba that has a melamine plant in China. Diabetes rates are through the roof and so is chronic illness for children as well as cancers.....hmmmmm
Novartis is also making drugs to help all these sick kids ....and make millions in the drug trade........taking care of sick kids.

This Novartis is directly tied to the Nazi Germany...how come I am the only one that can see this connnection?
Obewan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the deal this story is much bigger than just melamine. You need to check out Novartis who owns Gerber&#8230;the baby food maker! Novartis also owns Ciba that has a melamine plant in China. Diabetes rates are through the roof and so is chronic illness for children as well as cancers&#8230;..hmmmmm<br />
Novartis is also making drugs to help all these sick kids &#8230;.and make millions in the drug trade&#8230;&#8230;..taking care of sick kids.</p>
<p>This Novartis is directly tied to the Nazi Germany&#8230;how come I am the only one that can see this connnection?<br />
Obewan</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon G</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52373</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 01:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52373</guid>
		<description>re:  Comment by nancy — May 4, 2007 @ 10:33 am 

Thank you for that very good post - wanted you to know it was noticed. I totally agree; ignoring these risks is so irresponsible. I&#039;ve become fatalistic in past days; I figure I&#039;ll be joining my kitty in chronic renal problems one of these days and maybe we&#039;ll go together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re:  Comment by nancy — May 4, 2007 @ 10:33 am </p>
<p>Thank you for that very good post - wanted you to know it was noticed. I totally agree; ignoring these risks is so irresponsible. I&#8217;ve become fatalistic in past days; I figure I&#8217;ll be joining my kitty in chronic renal problems one of these days and maybe we&#8217;ll go together.</p>
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		<title>By: Lew Orban</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52261</link>
		<dc:creator>Lew Orban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 00:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52261</guid>
		<description>Would everybody please wake up....this has been in our human food supply for a very long time.......Do we have no brains.....the Chinese got caught ...this is not the first time they have done this...they have been doing this all along for years.....shut down all processed food imports coming into this country!!!!!!!Now!!!!!! Don&#039;t be naive or foolish!
Obewan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would everybody please wake up&#8230;.this has been in our human food supply for a very long time&#8230;&#8230;.Do we have no brains&#8230;..the Chinese got caught &#8230;this is not the first time they have done this&#8230;they have been doing this all along for years&#8230;..shut down all processed food imports coming into this country!!!!!!!Now!!!!!! Don&#8217;t be naive or foolish!<br />
Obewan</p>
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		<title>By: Kathi</title>
		<link>http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-52234</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 23:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/05/04/pet-food-recall-fun-with-numbers-and-friday-morning-open-thread/#comment-52234</guid>
		<description>Kat - More Peanut Butter Recall - 1:49 pm
Scroll down page further and look at blood recall - donor - risk of - nvCJD.
What does that mean!  8)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kat - More Peanut Butter Recall - 1:49 pm<br />
Scroll down page further and look at blood recall - donor - risk of - nvCJD.<br />
What does that mean!  8)</p>
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