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Pet food recall: Liveblogging 5/3 FDA press conference

By Christie Keith

May 3, 2007

• If you have a sick pet or a question on your pet’s health, call your veterinarian.
• If you’re new to the site, please check out our general information page (includes information on recalled foods).
• If you want to report a sick or deceased pet, click here.

I am liveblogging today’s FDA press telebriefing. They give the topic as “Joint FDA/USDA update on adulterated feed.”

Present will be:

–David Acheson, M.D., assistant commissioner for food protection, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
–Captain David Elder, U.S. Public Health Service, director, Office of Enforcement, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
–Julie Zawisza, assistant commissioner for public affairs, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
–Kenneth Petersen, D.V.M., M.P.H., assistant administrator for field operations, Food Safety and Inspection Service, USDA

As always: I’m doing this live. There will be typos. Anything not in quotation marks is a paraphrase. Just hit refresh periodically to see the info as I update this post.

4:08 PM ET: Telebriefing has not begun yet. Musical accompaniment (note how I avoid trademarked term) is an instrumental version of “I Know I’ll Never Love This Way Again.”

4:12 PM ET: We begin.

Julie Zawisza introduces. Update on contaminated feed. Only one speaker, Dr. David Acheson. Then Q&A with Dr. Petersen from USDA, FDA’s Dr. Stephen Sundloff, Michael Rogers, Walter Batts, David Elder.

Dr. Acheson: Says he will go over the recent expanded Menu recall, history of wheat gluten, issues of safety of consuming contaminated food, and update on investigation with China. [The rest is after the jump.]

“Put us all on the same page with wheat gluten.” Can go to either pet or human food. “In current investigation,” ALL ended up in pet food system. We learned about this whole thing because of sick or dying pets. Once we knew contaminated wheat gluten ended up in pet food supply, we asked did any get into the human chain?

We have done extensive investigation into that system and have found no evidence any of those contaminated lots ended up as an ingredient in human food. Stressed “as an ingredient.” None of the contaminated wheat gluten ended up in the human chain.

A portion of the contaminated pet food was incorporated into feed for hogs and poultry, some of which have entered the food supply. Will say more about that later.

Then said “likewise the rice protein concentrate.”

Speaking of pet food, Menu foods did expand their recall, will not go into it, referred to their website for more info. Said it’s cross-contamination problem. The information on that is posted already.

The human health impact. This has all gone down the pet food side. The only connection is when pet food is used as human food (I think he meant animal feed?). It is extremely unlikely there is a human health effect here. Explains the dilution effect.

When contaminated wheat gluten comes into the country, only 5-8 percent is melamine. Wheat gluten is not an exclusive ingredient of the pet food. Only a small portion of the pet food is then made into animal feed. Once it’s gone into the poultry and hogs, a “small portion of the meat on the market will potentially contain very low levels of melamine.” But poultry and pork do not eat EXCLUSIVELY poultry and pork.

There is a series of dilution steps. Original contaminated wheat gluten to pet food to animal feed, then the amount of the animals the humans will consume. A dramatic dilution of the contamination, to the point where “we believe the likelihood of a human illness is very remote.”

Goes back and says he is not saying people are eating pet food, but the whole process by which it goes to be animal feed then into the human food chain when people eat the meat.

Next point is our proactive strategy.

Two key elements.

Imports: FDA working with customs and border protection has an import alert in place for protein concentrates of vegetable origin from China. They are held at the border and can only enter US commerce when we are condident they are safe to proceed. Preventing further input of contaminated protein concentrates of vegetable origin from China.

Domestic: Investigators are going out to manufacturers who use protein concentrates and raising awareness about supply chain importance, and if they have rec’d ingredients from China that have not been used, make sure they are tested for melamine and melamine compounds. To ensure anything “that is currently in the US is safe to consume.”

Few numbers: We have tested approx. 700 samples of finished pet food or the ingredients. Approx. 400 have tested positive. Some have been multiple samples from the same lot. 92 lots total tested positive. All positive samples have come from the two companies we already know about. So far, all the positives have tracked back to companies we’re already aware of, that’s what all the recalls have been about.

Now, China:

Nothing much to report. We are there, an investigation has begun.

Abigail Goldman, LA Times: Can you confirm an arrest was made in China, and are you holding ingredients labeled “non-food”?

Julie Z: Please direct first question to Chinese law enforcement.

Dr. Acheson: If fraudulently labeled, we won’t necessarily know about that.

Abigail: Is that part of what caused the problem here?

Acheson: No. We have no evidence to suggest that is going on.

Boston Globe: Are investigators on the ground in China and seeing use of melamine or related compounds there?

Dr. Acheson: Good question, will investigate.

Joe Johns, CNN: Amount of date you’ve been able to recover on testing to say with confidence melamine did not reach into the human food chain except for the animals?

Acheson: The investigation of the contaminated pet food has been exhaustive. The investigation continues. Tracing back from sick animals then forward from the contaminated wheat gluten, and hence the host of recalls you have seen. I am confident none of those two contaminated batches have ended up in the human food chain.

Joe Johns: Said wheat gluten went into baby food? Have you looked into baby food?

Acheson: What gluten and RCP go in many directions, but there is no evidence it’s ended up in baby food or any other human food as an ingredient.

Randy Schmitt, AP: When talking earlier about sending investigators to look at wheat gluten still in the hands of manufacturers, is that pet or human food?

Acheson: Both.

David Curley, ABC News: You say these contaminated lots didn’t go into the human food chain, but this sounds like a standard practice with the Chinese. How do we know this hasn’t been going on a long time? And if it’s not okay in pet food, why is it okay in human food?

Acheson: Could it have been going on for years? Sure it could. We cannot rule that out. Something was different this time, where the contamination led to sick pets and came to the attention of pet owners and federal authorities. We can speculate why that happened or how long, the bottom line is we don’t know.

David Curley: If 3 million chickens have gone into the food supply, why is that okay, but not in pet food?

Acheson: Dilution effect restatement. I’m sparing my wrists and not retyping it.

CNN: Updated poultry numbers?

Ken Petersen: Poultry numbers from Tuesday are still the numbers.

Acheson also reminded ALL the known shipments went into pet food.

Julie Schmitt, USA Today: Can you tell us anything about the SmartPak recall? The product had melamine, but doesn’t contain any of the ingredients from China?

David Elder: That product did contain RPC?

Julie Schmitt: No, this is another product, it was just tested last night.

Elder: We believe this is cross-contamination.

Julie Schmitt: 92 positive contaminated lots out of how many?

Acheson: “If it’s negative, we’re not going to go chasing it down.”

CBS News: Any comment on new reports it was common practice for Chinese manufacturers to label food products as non-food products to escape detection?

Acheson: Need to see what Chinese investigation reveals.

Dan from CNN: Cross contamination – what does that mean exactly? Some vets say pets are still dying from food contaminated from cross contamination. Is food left over in a machine enough to kill an animal?

Acheson: It can mean all kind of things. You can get bacteria crossing between raw meat and salad. In this case, the manufacturer thinks there is cross contamination – said they needed to do a recall. Doesn’t know how or to what extent.

Dan: But it’s enough to cause death in animals, doesn’t that mean we should be concerned about small amounts in human foods?

Acheson: Cross contamination doesn’t mean it was a small amount. Might have also been caution.

Wall Street Journal: Is there any contaminated pork or poultry on the market currently today?

Petersen: No. The swine farms and poultry farms – the chicken went to slaughter in February. Dilution factors. We have no reason to believe those animals are any risk to the public. Same with swine.

WSJ: I understand you don’t think there is a risk, but is there any meat that might have been contaminated by this feed on the market today?

Petersen: No. Recall ruled out.

Chicago Tribune: 394 positive tests, what levels? And is melamine causing animals to fall sick and die, or some other possible cause?

Acheson: Variable levels, between 0.2-8 percent.

Chicago Tribune: Was it the melamine that sickened animals?

Acheson: Toxicity studies indicate melamine is not particularly toxic except in very high doses. Conundrum. Melamine related compounds, such as cyanuric acid – combination with melamine appears to be more toxic than either one alone. Thinking is, greater tendency to form crystals in the kidneys when combined. Current hypothesis is the combination.

Reuters: China investigation – how many investigators, will more go?

Acheson: No, can’t say more.

Reuters: Asked about pet death numbers. Knows are not confirmed, but can you update reports?

Sundloff: No new numbers. We are continuing to add more phone calls than we’ve been able to log. Trying to catch up with backlog. Imagine at next press conference we can update the numbers.

Michael Rogers: Clarify we’ve received over 17,000 complaints, around 50 percent alleging an animal death.

Acheson: Emphasizes ALLEGE. No proof.

Dow Jones: Back to pork and poultry. Is it “not on the market” because it’s been eaten? What about frozen foods?

Petersen: The pet food traceback is winding down. That’s how we became aware of pet food making its way into animal food. Investigation is ongoing.

Dow Jones: I want to make sure I’m clear. It’s your belief those 3 million chickens have already been consumed. If the meat is tainted, it’s already been consumed?

Petersen: There is no evidence of any harm to humans.

NY Times: Current proactive program. If vegetable protein concentrates have veered off in different directions, how do you determine which facilities to visit?

Acheson: Import records, data set… combined with local knowledge.

NYT: How many?

Acheson: Hundreds, but that’s a guess.

Baltimore Sun: Found melamine in any other veg protein products? Identified other importers who rec’d tainted imports?

Acheson: Only in US wheat gluten and RCP. Corn gluten was in South Africa. Can we rule it out? No.

Baltimore Sun: Any other importers?

Acheson: Import alert only going several days. But so far only those two.

Japanese media outlet reporter: Asked for more info on import alerts. Are there bans?

(I missed the response.)

Reporter asked if labeling was food/not food.

Acheson: Labeled as wheat gluten, not textiles. Not aware it came into the US mislabled.

Michael Rogers: We only know how shipments were declared entering the US, not leaving China.

Steve Dale: Melamine found as far back as 2006 in pet food – is it possible that this has played a role in companion animal health for a very long time? Longer than pet food recall? I am very ignorant about international trade, but it seems if there is any doubt, why isn’t there a ban on these products being imported in the US? Why don’t we just stop it until we’re certain?

Acheson: Our investigation of imported products involves testing and the other is tracing of where product was used. In terms of testing, some or the product used in 2007 and 2006 was positive for melamine and related compounds. Based on records, prior to point we got positives, where did that product go? It all went into pet food. So if some of the early 2006 samples were positive, we can say based on records, if they were positive, they went into pet foods. And maybe that DID make them sick, but it didn’t make them sick in a way we noticed. It is possible it’s been making pets sick for a long time, even though it didn’t come to our attention.

Says why detention instead of a ban, is to use a filter so everything is examined and only let through when it’s okay. Nothing is 100 percent foolproof.

Karen Roebuck: Did any of the contaminated feed go to animals other than chickens or swine, and how many farms are involved? Readers are concerned about the chicken they are using to make homemade pet diets – giving another contaminated product?

Acheson: That’s alot of questions. Let me see if I can remember. Cattle. Thank you. Not aware of anything other than hogs and poulty. Numbers of farms, Dr. Petersen?

Petersen: 30 poultry in Indiana, 8 swine in six states. Static. 38 farms total.

Sundloff: No indication pets are more susceptible. We don’t understand how this whole syndrome is affecting animals. We don’t recommend that pet owners prepare their own pet foods. At least not over a long term. Pet foods are nutritionally balanced to meet all the nutritional needs of the pet. Just feeding chicken is not in the best interest of pets. The veterinary community in general is opposed to homemade diets unless you really know what you’re doing, and most people, myself included would not be able to do that.

WaPo: If human food supply, case control study would have been done early on. Has anyone done that in veterinary world so we can get some sense of how much of a dose it takes to get this and how different this is from baseline of renal failure in cats and dogs?

Sundloff: In close contact with AVMA and AAVLD – folks who operate in the animal disease diagnostic laboraties. While there is no similar organization for veterinary medicine, in this case the correlation were so strong, we know what products were causing death and illness, it was a dramatic effect, no need for case control studies.

Some of the concentrations of melamine were very high (in pet food). A lot of people are trying to work on this issue, veterinary organizations, colleges of veterinary medicine, to understand relationship between melamine, cyanuric acid, and some of the other components that we’ve found in the wheat gluten and RPC. As things go on further we should have a better understanding.

Reporter: How can such a small amount do so much damage? What portion of the pet food is wheat gluten and RCP? Is FDA investigating other contaminants?

Acheson: We talked about a lot of numbers today, and your question illustrates the complexity of this event. The 0.2-8 percent is the melamine content of the wheat gluten. In a sample of wheat gluten was between 0.2-8 percent melamine. Contaminated wheat gluten was used to make the pet food. Those foods were fed to pets. Variable proportions – maybe 5-10 percent of the pet food is wheat gluten. That may be on high end, can get you the specific number later.

Reporter: That still seems like a small amount, are you looking if something else might have caused this?

Acheson: No evidence of anything else caused this. The one thing that had changed was the wheat gluten. Mel and mel compounds is all that has come up. We don’t believe the mel alone is the cause of this, but the combination with related compounds. Lot of questions we dont’ have answers to as to how that happened or how frequently, or precise concentration needed.

Bloomberg News: Asked about samples tested.

Acheson: “Too many numbers in one press conference.”

Bloomberg: Is this a limited problem?

Acheson: To date, yes.

This will be the LAST QUESTION. Guess I won’t be asking mine.

Elizabeth Weise, USA Today: Cross-contamination even in products that don’t contain wheat gluten or RCP, can we rule that out in other foods than these pet foods?

Acheson: All contaminted wheat gluten and RCP has only gone into pet food. We are always on the lookout for cross-contamination. But none of this went into the human food supply that we’re aware of, the question is moot in terms of human food.

EW: No plants that make both human and pet food?

Acheson: Not that we’re aware of.

Briefing ends.

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Filed under: 2007 food recall,animals: pets,news — Christie Keith @ 1:05 pm

Comments (232)

232 Comments »

1. I just have plain old “refresh”, no “refresh periodically”…..

   Comment by mike — May 3, 2007 @ 1:07 pm

2. How bad is the Muzzik torture, this time?

   Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 1:09 pm

3. how about “I Know I’ll Never EAT this way again”

   Comment by Donna — May 3, 2007 @ 1:09 pm

4. Foreshadowing “this is our final teleconference”

   Comment by mike — May 3, 2007 @ 1:11 pm

5. So, pretty bad then, hang in there!
   Some have survived even the dread “Macarthur Park”, with minimal brain damage.

   Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 1:12 pm

6. Does anyone know where I can access the list of corporations who own pet food companies? Thanks.

   Comment by Donna — May 3, 2007 @ 1:14 pm

7. I need some help here.

   Cleo, my 17 yo kitty with thyroid problems, is at the vet now and it’s iffy if she’ll survive.

   She’s got 104.9 temp with a raging UTI. The Dr says there is considerable blood in her urine, it has a very strange smell but also, there is something in there that he can’t identify.

   This is the SECOND cat he has seen today with this.

   Does anyone know what happens to these crystals that form in the kidneys from the melamine-tainted food? Does the cats system try to expel them?

   God, I’m at a loss here and so afraid I won’t be bringing her home alive again. But I’ve asked him to send the labs out to identify what that strange thing is that is showing up in her urine.

   God I hope this isn’t the start of another trend.

   Can someone ask the vets at the PC about this - specifically, what are they seeing in recovering animals?

   Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 1:20 pm

8. Sharon, you might want to refer your vet to this site, asap.
   http://www.vin.com/Promo/MenuRecall.htm

   Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 1:23 pm

9. Sharon: are you member of any Yahoo pet groups, like here:
   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/g.....=220027849
   that you can post that to?….

   Comment by mike — May 3, 2007 @ 1:24 pm

10. Nice to see the FDA actually having to work for change.

    Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 1:26 pm

11. No, mike, I’m not. I applied for membership at a yahoo crf site but never got a responding e-mail.

    Kim, he knows about all this and has contended that Cleo’s issues are elderly ones that “might” have been exacerbated by the spoiled pet foods. Maui, my 16 yo cat was treated for poisoning with him 6 weeks ago.

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 1:28 pm

12. Now Gina, the eyes watching will bust you for gambling! But the idea of FDA media events as a blood sport may catch on!

    Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 1:31 pm

13. FDA responds “Good question, will investigate.”

    Are you kidding? Maybe we should prepare a list for them to investigate (proactively).

    Comment by Donna — May 3, 2007 @ 1:33 pm

14. Sharon try the feline-crf-info yahoogroup. The list owner is Helen who created and maintains Tanya’s CRF site. http://www.felinecrf.org

    Helen has always been a wonderful source of information.

    Comment by Brandi — May 3, 2007 @ 1:35 pm

15. One of the independent labs that’s been testing pet food for people should start testing some common PEOPLE food with protein concentrate in it. I’m not sure that I trust the FDA’s investigative skills at this point!

    Comment by Lisa C — May 3, 2007 @ 1:36 pm

16. Do they not understand that some people eat chicken every single day? And that when we’re not eating chicken, we’re eating eggs? And that we’re feeding our PETS chicken? grrrr

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 1:36 pm

17. I sure agree with Lisa’s statement

    Comment by Elaine — May 3, 2007 @ 1:37 pm

18. Kim, I’ll see that grrrr and raise ya one.
    Dilution effect my patootie.

    Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 1:38 pm

19. I am not sure ANYONE should trust the FDA’s investigative skills, but the boys can spin like a Sufi dancer, can’t they?

    Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 1:39 pm

20. Sharon, our vets cannot recommend treatment for your kitty. It’s just not something we can do without a vet-patient relationship. You’re going to need to keep working with your own veterinarians for your pet’s best care.

    The VIN page referenced above does offer a lot of background info, for you and your veterinarian, both.

    Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 3, 2007 @ 1:40 pm

21. Sharon, the melamine crystals are present in urine as well as the urinary system itself; link to pictures was posted elsewhere on this site. The crystals are roughly circular and show a spoke-like pattern radiating out from the middle under a microscope, per description at that link.

    Keep pushing that vet.

    Comment by Debra — May 3, 2007 @ 1:44 pm

22. As Kim pointed out we only hear about the dilution effect and NOT the accumulation effect.

    Also

    “What tests have you run on the humans that have eaten the chickens that have eaten the “diluted” chicken tainted with Melamine, crynic acid and the other two chemicals?”

    Will you be tracking the humans who ate this chicken to see if they show any symptoms?

    I’m pissed at this, “We are sure it’s fine, but we won’t tell you who ate it and test them.”

    That is not science, that is guess work based on hope.

    Why won’t they tell us the names again of the chicken companies? Did they cut a deal with them to NOT reveal their names?

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 1:45 pm

23. This dilution effect might be real, but they have no scientific testing on people who ate the poultry to PROVE it’s okay. This is just guess work.

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 1:48 pm

24. Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
    “Why won’t they tell us the names again of the chicken companies?”

    Trying to avoid nation wide panic would be my guess.
    They’re in deep doo-doo no matter how you look at it.

    Never mind the deep ca-ca they’ll find themselves in if the human food chain has has been compromised. Which I find incredibly difficult to believe has not.

    Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 1:48 pm

25. Sharon:
    I just posted that on two of my Yahoo pet groups, but they don’t respond usually very quickly…gina can give you my e-addrsss, or she can give me yours, and if there’s any responses i’ll send them to you. but like gina said, most of those dvm’s on the Yahoo groups also are pretty much the same way….
    mike

    Comment by mike — May 3, 2007 @ 1:49 pm

26. 8 percent??? Dilution effect my a**

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 1:50 pm

27. Sharon, good luck to you. My 10 year old cat got sick from the tainted food 6 weeks ago and I had to put her to sleep. My 8 year old cat is so far fine as well as my 5 year old dog. Your story is exactly what I’ve been dreading for weeks since putting my first cat down. To have to go through all that again is my worst nightmare. Atleast now the country’s vets seem to know more about it and how best to treat it (fluids & antibiotics). My poor kitty didn’t have a chance. They didn’t even know what was causing the kidney failure then.

    Comment by nikandboots — May 3, 2007 @ 1:53 pm

28. Ally. As someone said, they are positioning this in such a way so that it poses “little risk to humans.” can we have a second opinion? Can you please point us to the studies that this poses little risk?” No. Then it is all just conjecture on their part. Now it MIGHT be informed conjecture, but it is based on assumptions that not everyone may agree with.

    I want a second opinion from someone who is NOT the FDA or the Pet Food person.

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 1:53 pm

29. It is interesting that they’re willing to ASSUME the “dilution effect” makes pork and chicken safe, but the deaths of pets are ALLEGED until scientifically confirmed.

    Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 3, 2007 @ 1:53 pm

30. Acheson, making “dilution factor” his version of “weapons of mass destruction”. And we all know how accurate THAT was!

    Comment by Lin52 — May 3, 2007 @ 1:54 pm

31. Gina - agreed.
    Good point.

    Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 1:54 pm

32. Hogs ate the contaminated food—they tested hog pee and found melamine—People ate contaminated hogs—-would make good sense to then test people pee, right?

    Comment by Elaine — May 3, 2007 @ 1:55 pm

33. Okay so the WSJ gets to ask multiple questions, why not Christie?

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 1:55 pm

34. It’s “Spin” - pure spin and indoctrination and lies and trying to keep the lid on when obviously it was blown weeks ago. Who believes thier lies anymore?

    Not even the news media it appears.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 1:56 pm

35. Because they’re the WALL STREET JOURNAL, silly. There’s always a caste system. :)

    Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 3, 2007 @ 1:56 pm

36. Spocko - we have it. one of the Drs working WITH the USDA says that long-term health effects are a concern.

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/.....05650.html

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 1:57 pm

37. From that last link…

    As more contaminated human and pet food products are found daily, the biggest unknown remains the long-term health effects from eating food laced with industrial chemicals, doctors and researchers said Tuesday.

    “That is one thing people are still concerned about — long-term effects — and we still don’t know the answer to that,” said Dr. Wilson Rumbeiha, a pathologist with Michigan State University’s Center for Population and Animal Health. Rumbeiha is working with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on the pet food contamination.

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 1:58 pm

38. When the food rots on the shelves then maybe the FDA will take notice - until then, it’s business as usual.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 1:59 pm

39. Since we are getting poetic and musical…

    Who is old enough to remember “The Graduate” ?

    Remember when Mr. Robinson gave Dustin Hoffman’s character a stock tip?

    “one word, ‘plastics’.”

    Comment by Pat — May 3, 2007 @ 2:01 pm

40. I was reluctant to do this, but am I going to have to call all the chicken farms in Indiana?

    They can ask the FDA all day, but they aren’t going to tell you. Their message is, “It’s fine.”
    Okay that is out there. So now the journalists need to get the names. I’ve already contacted Perdue and they said, “Not us!”

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 2:01 pm

41. Is Acheson talking in circles and stonewalling? I’m already getting a bad feeling about this guy that he’s not working for us either… stop paying him.

    Comment by Cynthia — May 3, 2007 @ 2:01 pm

42. How about Tyson?

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 2:02 pm

43. Gina, I know. I was just wondering if anyone had seen this bizarre set of symptoms in cats that had been exposed. My vets being very proactive with her. I’ve asked him not to do anything extreme other than IV and antibiotics. If she’s going to go, she needs to be home with me. The vet said he’s gonna do his best to make sure that if it gets to that point, I’ll be able to bring her home. First 24 hours is the key.

    I know she’s old, and I know she’s sick too, but that doesn’t mean that her life isn’t just as important as a young kitty who was fed this garbage. Every time I think that I can’t get angrier, that this nightmare will end, I read something like this and it blows me away:

    “Michael Rogers: Clarify we’ve received over 17,000 complaints, around 50 percent alleging an animal death.”

    50 percent :(

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:03 pm

44. Sharron
    I am so sorry about your kitty. I hope and pray she pulls through. What were you feeding your kitties that caused this?

    Also, can anyone tell me what they have witnessed as signs of a UTI? Thanks!

    Comment by Lacy — May 3, 2007 @ 2:06 pm

45. Possible it made pets sick and we did not notice.

    I say it is damned likely and the FDA would not know about this NOW if a lot of bloggers had not started screaming!

    My blood pressure just “spikes” every single time the FDA does a media event.

    Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 2:06 pm

46. Thanks Lacy. Signs are lethargy, physical weakness, little or no urination (very hard to tell in a multi-cat household), sometimes increased or painful urination, fever, not eating…

    I was feeding them Priority pouches and canned and Iams Regular chow. FDA told me everything I was feeding them was recalled :(

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:08 pm

47. Can you believe it - now they want to make certain we do not make our own pet food. Whose side are they on anyway? As if we don’t know.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 2:09 pm

48. Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 3, 2007 @ 1:53 pm

    Bingo, Gina. Very interesting indeed.

    Comment by mountainkimmie — May 3, 2007 @ 2:10 pm

49. “It is possible it’s been making pets sick for a long time, even though it didn’t come to our attention.”

    I don’t doubt it’s been making pets sick for a long time. Personally it would explain why so many otherwise young, healthy pets have kidney failure.

    Gee, wouldn’t that go against their “dilution effect” making human food safe??

    They’re a bunch of idiots!

    Comment by Brandi — May 3, 2007 @ 2:10 pm

50. spocko, I posted an article yesterday about a West Virginia chicken company that also said “not Us!” so you can strike them off the list too. If I can just remember their name…

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:10 pm

51. How full of crap is Sundloff re home made diets???

    Comment by Lin52 — May 3, 2007 @ 2:11 pm

52. Did Sundloff just say that commercial pet food is currently safer than homemade? People. We are not safe. At all. And is Acheson smarting off?

    Comment by Cynthia — May 3, 2007 @ 2:11 pm

53. Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 1:57 pm

    THANK YOU Kim, for that Pittsburgh Trib link!

    Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 2:12 pm

54. Sharon, I got that it was Pilgrams Pride who said not us. But I didn’t hear back from Tyson’s.
    Maybe I’ll have to get everyone via elimination.

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 2:12 pm

55. Isn’t the best position, the safest position, is to announce the names of the chicken farms and let the citizens decide? If they err, err on the side of safety - be proactive.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 2:14 pm

56. so what we know. pet food will kill your pet, but the head vet at the FDA says no to homemade diets because he’s not smart enough to make them, so we obviously aren’t either? did i get this right?

    Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 2:14 pm

57. So, it is between 2 and 8 percent melamine and associated poisons I should be adding to the pet food I make at home, per the FDA?
    Anyone know where I can get that stuff cheap?
    The food needs to be made to pet company standards, right?
    Can’t make pet food and HE is an expert?

    (sarcasm, I do not add melamine- melachicken has plenty)

    Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 2:14 pm

58. Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 2:12 pm

    What if they lie to you? What if everyone says not us? Why would they have to tell you the truth?

    Comment by Lisa C — May 3, 2007 @ 2:15 pm

59. someone else posted somewhere that Tyson said it wasn’t them.

    Ally - you’re welcome! I blogged it a couple of days ago… really expected more of the media to report on it… silly, silly me.

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 2:16 pm

60. Karen Roebuck is doing some good work!
    Thanks for the link Kim!

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 2:16 pm

61. E. Hamilton—If you make your own, don’t forget the special ingredient, cyanuric acid. It just isn’t the same without it.

    Comment by Lisa C — May 3, 2007 @ 2:16 pm

62. “We don’t recommend that pet owners prepare their own pet foods. At least not over a long term. Pet foods are nutritionally balanced to meet all the nutritional needs of the pet. Just feeding chicken is not in the best interest of pets. The veterinary community in general is opposed to homemade diets unless you really know what you’re doing, and most people, myself included would not be able to do that.”

    Now. Hitting. Head. Against. Wall.

    Comment by mountainkimmie — May 3, 2007 @ 2:16 pm

63. Acheson: “Too many numbers in one press conference.”

    excuse me?! WTF?!!!

    Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 2:18 pm

64. By the way, Karen Roebuck who just asked a question is the one who wrote the Tribute article.

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 2:19 pm

65. Thank you so much Sharon. I have a multi-cat household so it is hard to tell about the urination. I am trying to keep my eye on who goes in the litterbox and am trying to spy on them. I do have one cat who is meowing occasionally when he is in there. And they seem to be in there a lot more often. I am praying for your baby.

    Comment by Lacy — May 3, 2007 @ 2:19 pm

66. Okay, remember when I talked about a Freedom of Information Act request? So I call 50 chicken farms in Indiana I get them all saying. “Nope,not us!” The I compare them with the list I get from the FOIA request and say, “Okay I asked, you said no. But according to this FDA list you were one that did send out the chicken that was contaminated.”

    Then I ask them, “Please tell us who you sold it to so we can have people start monitoring their health.”

    We will need to verify that their “dilution” effect is real and not just something they hope is safe based on assumptions and not testing.

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 2:21 pm

67. Acheson: All contaminted wheat gluten and RCP has only gone into pet food. We are always on the lookout for cross-contamination. But none of this went into the human food supply that we’re aware of, the question is moot in terms of human food.

    EW: No plants that make both human and pet food?

    Acheson: Not that we’re aware of.

    Not aware of very bloody much, are they?

    Comment by Lin52 — May 3, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

68. “the head vet at the FDA says no to homemade diets because he’s not smart enough to make them, so we obviously aren’t either? did i get this right?
    Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 2:14 pm”

    Yep. You got it right.

    Comment by mountainkimmie — May 3, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

69. Lacy, my boy kitty has always done that :) It’s like he’s announcing that he’s making a pit stop. My poor husband (of 3 years now and never a cat owner) thinks it’s bizarre and started howling when he hit the potty too just to be funny :)

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

70. They must think we’re idiots to believe their spin. Stop, you’ll hurt your pets further by not feeding pet food

    We’ve only had pet food for 60 years what were pets eating before Purina and Pedigree and Nutro?

    I guess there weren’t any - we killed them all.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

71. Don’t FOIA requests take awhile?

    Comment by Lisa C — May 3, 2007 @ 2:25 pm

72. Sharon, my mom had to go to the dentist not long ago, which she hates, and she meowed all the way there. Drove my Dad nuts!

    Comment by mountainkimmie — May 3, 2007 @ 2:26 pm

73. Sundloff: The veterinary community in general is opposed to homemade diets unless you really know what you’re doing, and most people, myself included would not be able to do that.

    Dr. Sundloff does not know how to feed his pets except out of a bag marked “complete and balanced for all life stages”?! HOW did he get this job? AND - are they hiring? I’m not a doctor but I do know how to feed my pets…

    Comment by slt — May 3, 2007 @ 2:29 pm

74. Karen Roebuck asks great questions and has great articles. Don’t know her, but really noticed her on the previous conference.

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:29 pm

75. Next fun on Tuesday, the FDA says they will have better numbers on the pet deaths then?

    Time to start dialing.

    Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 2:29 pm

76. Sharon, has the kitty who has always meowed in the litter box been checked in the past for urinary problems? I’m told it’s often a sign of pain when passing urine. Of course, some cats do announce things. But it’s best to check it out to be sure.

    Lacy, if this is a new behavior, your cat should have a urinalysis also, ASAP.

    Comment by Debra — May 3, 2007 @ 2:30 pm

77. I read an article where Tyson’s DID put tainted food in the human stores. I’ll go look for it.

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:31 pm

78. wasn’t Tyson the one that distributed hogs?

    Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 2:31 pm

79. “Pork, about 12 percent of Tyson’s sales, saw higher sale prices and strong export sales. Bond said 195 hogs that had eaten feed from China that had been treated with the banned chemical melamine did go to a Tyson pork plant in Nebraska. Bond said there is no indication of harm to humans and that the meat was not recalled.”

    That’s the part I read. It’s buried at the bottom of this article:

    http://tinyurl.com/3bc3ye

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:33 pm

80. Tyson has a very bad record regarding working conditions and worker rights. I would not take their chicken if they gave it to me.

    Comment by Debra — May 3, 2007 @ 2:33 pm

81. I would if it wasn’t mela-chicken.

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:34 pm

82. Little Anna is on raw and homemade stews. Nice neat little poopies and a CLEAN plate. She’s happy and so am I.
    I don’t have to spray blood on it to make it taste good. And I don’t have to add nutrients because they are still in there. 8)
    But we’re to dumb????
    okey, dokey!!!

    Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 2:35 pm

83. Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 2:18 pm

    “Acheson: “Too many numbers in one press conference.”

    excuse me?! WTF?!!!”

    Translation:

    Too much information to revile in one press conference

    Comment by Peggy — May 3, 2007 @ 2:36 pm

84. Lisa, yet, month if not years. But I could use the filing of it as a marker to say, ‘We need to know this and we will find out eventually.’

    But I keep thinking that one of those real journalist from the WSJ (who get all their questions answered) will do the work. Not a lowly blogger like me. ;-(

    Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 2:37 pm

85. Hrmmm…..maybe it’s time I looked into raising my own chickens.
    Except what could I trust to feed them? Worms maybe, but I digress…

    Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 2:37 pm

86. “Karen Roebuck: Did any of the contaminated feed go to animals other than chickens or swine, and how many farms are involved? Readers are concerned about the chicken they are using to make homemade pet diets - giving another contaminated product?

    Acheson: That’s alot of questions. Let me see if I can remember. Cattle. Thank you. Not aware of anything other than hogs and poulty. Numbers of farms, Dr. Petersen?

    Petersen: 30 poultry in Indiana, 8 swine in six states. Static. 38 farms total.”

    Where is Tyson, LITTLE ROCK, Ark. where the article was or somewhere else?

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:38 pm

87. The tainted feed went to Chicken Farms in Indiana right? Just Indiana.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 2:38 pm

88. Lisa C, yes, sometimes FOIA requests take awhile, especially when you are requesting lots of information. And I would guess that in this case, they will be very very careful of the information.

    I used to do these for navigation accidents for the feds. They are very careful when there could be a future lawsuit involved.

    Debra, he’s always been an announcer and he’s been checked for UTIs. He’s just a drama queen :)

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:38 pm

89. Peggy -
    I think they missed snack time.

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:39 pm

90. Hahaha Sharon! Thank you for making me laugh. Your silly husband! And thank you Debra. I cant say its completely new behavior. Since he was a kitten he would sometimes meow when going #2. But lately it seems he isnt urinating as much and it takes longer than usual to come out. He is a hard kitty to understand, becuase he is a total copy cat. When Im scooping the litter he’ll come and pee even when he doesnt have to go. Or if another kitty is in there he HAS to be in there too, even if he doesnt have to go. Could be the reason it takes him a minute to get it out. Ill take him in just to be on the safe side. They all did eat recalled NB and had bloodwork and were fine, but no urinalysis. Ill be takin him for that.

    Comment by Lacy — May 3, 2007 @ 2:40 pm

91. “Acheson: That’s alot of questions. Let me see if I can remember”

    Is it Karen’s questions he was trying to remember, or what his answers are ‘supposed’ to be to those questions I wonder….

    Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

92. There are free-range chicken farms in Indiana - those chickens probably went to health food stores and natural food co-ops.

    Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

93. Sharon, photos of crystals: http://tinyurl.com/2yytrw
    hope it helps

    Comment by Rose — May 3, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

94. spocko, check out Hudson Foods, based in AR but have a plant in IN. Shady things in their past, including one of the largest beef recalls in the late 1990s. Hmmmm…not pointing a finger but definitely worth a phone call.

    Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

95. Spocko I don’t think there ARE any “lowly bloggers” in all of this. All of you bloggers are the only reason I (and many other people) even know what’s going on.

    Comment by Lisa C — May 3, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

96. peggy, yup could be. or the flip side could be they didn’t expect people to want REAL answers and press them on it . . .

    me, jaded? naw …….

    Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 2:43 pm

97. EW: No plants that make both human and pet food?
    Acheson: Not that we’re aware of.

    ………….

    Gee, that’s reassuring innit?

    Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 2:43 pm

98. I can’t believe noone asked if the Menu Foods recall was related to the FDA inspection of the plant in Kansas last week.

    grrrr.

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 2:43 pm

99. I can’t believe noone got to ask if the Menu Foods recall was related to the FDA inspection of the plant in Kansas last week.

    And I can’t believe nooone got to ask about the other rice protein importer.

    And I can’t believe… well, you all get the idea.

    Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 2:44 pm

100. I think that someone should tell the FDA that putting your hands over your eyes and ears while singing “I can’t hear you” does not qualify as “not aware.”

     Comment by Lisa C — May 3, 2007 @ 2:47 pm

101. My experience with cat UTI is a lot of running to the box without much results. If you see this - get to the vet quick.

     Sharon - I’ve been reading the the best hope for success is to push a lot of fluids through the kidneys to get those crystals flushed out as fast as possible. I thought I read a liter of fluid somewhere, but I’m not sure and I don’t want to give bad advice.

     Comment by Andrea 2CatMom — May 3, 2007 @ 2:49 pm

102. Cleo was completely lethargic, head hanging, really weak. But then she has a high fever too.

     The crystals I’m asking about are those leftover after the melamine has done it’s trick to the kidneys of pets that ate the tainted food.

     She’s at the vets on an IV right now, and the vet expects that if she lasts for the next 24 hours, then she’ll be there until monday.

     Gina, is Heather okay?

     Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:53 pm

103. heres a farm rose acre dutch farms seymour in

     Comment by kim townsell — May 3, 2007 @ 2:53 pm

104. Gosh, and to think I’ve been feeding my family home made food all these years! And I don’t even have a degree in food science!! How can I, a lowly consumer be trusted to feed my family without the help of the food manufacturers and their non-nutritious garbage food? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

     You know, this isn’t rocket science (OK it is a bit like the Challenger disaster). People and pets have been surviving on home made food for…well, centuries actually.

     Comment by Andrea 2CatMom — May 3, 2007 @ 2:55 pm

105. I wish I could swing a whiffle bat at someone’s head. That thunking sound would be really gratifying at the moment!
     ;) ;)

     Comment by Sharon — May 3, 2007 @ 2:57 pm

106. Gina-Is there an FDA press briefing schedule somewhere? It seems to be at 4 East Coast time. if there isn’t a schedule that I can check, can you announce it “as soon as you get up”. I checked my mail this am early, and then just got on. I really like watching it all unfold. Another question, I assume that it is not broadcast any place else and you can’t get in (onto the teleconference itself) unless you have press credentials, right?

     Comment by Shawn — May 3, 2007 @ 2:59 pm

107. I like how we were told not to make our own pet food, but the question that prompted that statement was NOT answered!

     I’m feeding my 25-pound dog a good-quality kibble from a company which has had NO brands recalled (yet?), but to REDUCE the total amount of commercial food he eats (just in case we get an “ooops, oh yeah, we’re contaminated, too”) I’ve been adding boiled chicken instead canned food to the kibble. I’m doing this so he still gets his nutrients but his bowl is palateable (he won’t eat kibble alone) and so I’ve only got one product to worry about, not two.

     And the question that wasn’t answered remains: What of the chicken I’m feeding my 25-pound dog and what is the risk to him? I weigh 100 pounds more than him and I eat the chicken maybe twice a week ; HE is eating it every day, twice a day.

     They NEED to ANSWER the question. A blanket “dilution effect” statement isn’t an answer.

     Comment by JM Leong — May 3, 2007 @ 3:01 pm

108. The FDA is giving updates so they can at least say - we are keeping the public informed, when they aren’t telling us anything. Then the FDA can report to the White House - but really nothing has changed. We know it, they know it, and the news media knows it too.

     Just exactly what are we to eat these days? Fish I suppose as long as it doesn’t come from China - we better catch it ourselves. Stay away from farmed fish. They don’t farm Tuna right?

     Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 3:02 pm

109. “Not that we’re aware of.”
     How comforting.
     Does that imply “we’ll let you know when the complaints on human food start coming in?” 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 3:03 pm

110. It just seems that FDA’s Dr. Stephen Sundloff is just like all the other people associated with the petfood industry - DENY, DENY, DENY - Let’s not anyone accept any responsibility for the problem especially the pet food industry because we might actually be held responsible and have to actually help everyone who has lost a pet or still has a sick one.

     I’m still watching my 4 kitties like a hawk - they seem fine so far but who knows, we were originally feeding them iams and then switched to Blue Buffalo Blue Spa and then their canned was recalled. And after all the food which has been recalled and is still being recalled - everyone is asking the same question - what can we feed our pets.

     i’d much rather take the chance of making my own food and using the same ingredients that we eat than trust the pet food manufacturers - “at least we’ll all be sick together if there’s another problem” and i won’t feel like i poisoned them.

     And shame on Dr Sundloff, and not everyone in the veternary community agrees with him - Dr. Lisa Pierson D.V.M., see her website catinfo.or has what i think is good info on making your own catfood. i believe that if you do the research. are willing to get the right ingredients and spend the time, you can make a good healthly diet for your pet,except that i plan on leaving out all the POISON.

     i did my research on the internet and found a couple of what i think are good websites regarding a raw food diet - catinfo.org and catnutrition.org and you can buy the vitamins and stuff to mix with the raw meat (which we will purchase from a local whole foods market) or one of the sites recommended a place to purchase the ingredients already mixed so i purchased the dry ingredients which consist of egg yolk and vitamins (Instincts TC) from the felinefuture.com website.

     When mixed up this diet actually doesn’t seem too bad, but only one of the cats actually took to it right away and he’s the one who would never eat canned food. So we’re going to work with our other 3 and get them on this diet which i think will be better for them anyway. No more money to the pet food companies, at least not from my household

     Comment by Deborah — May 3, 2007 @ 3:04 pm

111. I prepare my dogs’ food. Have for decades. It’s ground turkey mixed with brown rice and oatmeal. I put in the grinds from my vegetable juicing.

     I mix it in with Royal Canin dry food (for Shih-tzus - because that’s what I have).

     Any one heard anything on dry food recalls?

     My cats eat Whiskas wet food and Royal Canin dry. Whiskas has “wheat gluten” in it.

     What can I use for my finicky cats in lieu of Whiskas? Any safe, wet alternative cat food?

     Comment by SAMarks — May 3, 2007 @ 3:04 pm

112. oops - website is catinfo.org not catinfo.or

     Comment by Deborah — May 3, 2007 @ 3:06 pm

113. JM Leong - they won’t answer the question, because they don’t know. They don’t know how much melamine is too much. They don’t know if the affects are cummulative. They don’t know their a**es from a hole in the ground.

     Someone on Itchmo brought up an interesting item. Remember when the rice protein concentrate was the focus of attention, weren’t there two more shipments the FDA was tracking down? What ever happened with that?

     Comment by Andrea 2CatMom — May 3, 2007 @ 3:08 pm

114. Wow. I just looked at pics from the Guelph study that Itchmo posted. Seeing them up close & personal really drives home the beyond heinous presence of melamine even being there. It flat out even looks wrong. Like rock crystals or something. How in the hell is a pet supposed to “pass” that stuff?

     Oh right.
     They don’t.
     They die instead.

     Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 3:10 pm

115. My friends who don’t have computers called this morning in a tizzy about the recent recall. All they hear on TV (the crawler on the bottom of screen) is another recall, but no mention of what’s being recalled.
     So I have to read off the list. We all have experienced that “easy-to-read” list.
     Then my friends call others in the neighborhood to alert them.
     It’s like “pony-express” if you don’t have a computer!!
     Very frustrating. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 3:14 pm

116. Wondering if someone can help me out. A couple of people have asked me who manufactures Hill’s pet food. I know that Menu makes some of the canned. Does anyone know about any other manufacturer and if they make their own dry?

     Comment by Stephanie — May 3, 2007 @ 3:15 pm

117. “Sundloff: No indication pets are more susceptible. We don’t understand how this whole syndrome is affecting animals. We don’t recommend that pet owners prepare their own pet foods. At least not over a long term. Pet foods are nutritionally balanced to meet all the nutritional needs of the pet. Just feeding chicken is not in the best interest of pets. The veterinary community in general is opposed to homemade diets unless you really know what you’re doing, and most people, myself included would not be able to do that.”

     Well, it doesn’t help that a lot of the information you see online seems to be biased, and that sites flatly contradict each other. (Keep your salt shaker handy while surfing.) On the other hand, I know what I’m cooking isn’t poisoned.

     My 14 year old cat who was kind of a slow, grumpy old geezer is playing again. I doubt I’ll go back to dry food; I’m starting to think it didn’t agree with him.

     As a disclaimer, just tossing your cat a piece of boneless chicken breast isn’t nutritionally balanced. Kitties need calcium and taurine, etc. I’m giving them kitty vitamins (including calcium, taurine, and EFA supplements—human-grade fish oil) and 1/6 organ meat. It’ll do until this all blows over, maybe longer.

     Comment by Katherine — May 3, 2007 @ 3:17 pm

118. Why couldn’t the FDA answer the question about Menu’s cross contamination - exactly what type or kind of cross contamination happened recently?

     Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 3:19 pm

119. Ally
     Exactly and how did anyone not notice it???
     It’s been said that it can be seen by naked eye!
     Maybe everyone was wearing sunglasses! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 3:22 pm

120. J M Leong:
     Vary the protein source— dont add just boiled chix only. One day chix, another fish, another gr beef or turkey, another lamb, or goat, or rabbit, if you can find any of those. So far, the concern seems to be chix and pork only. I’m very surprised that we haven’t learned any farmed-fish have been affected….but so far, no.

     Comment by mike — May 3, 2007 @ 3:23 pm

121. Blame Canada?

     Comment by Tidsy — May 3, 2007 @ 3:28 pm

122. Sundloff’s statements are simply embarassing. Can’t believe we pay for his input on matters via his FDA position. We need to lose this loser.

     Of course, the whole conference was a shambles. Repeated statements of “there is no evidence of that.” “We have no proof of that.” What some people will hear is that this means there is no problem. What I hear is that there is no proof or evidence because we at the FDA aren’t staffed enough to look for the evidence or proof; and we are totally outgunned on this horrific chicken & pig in the human food chain deal, so we just aren’t looking for proof or evidence. Which means we can say we haven’t found any with complete confidence that most people won’t get what we really mean.

     For heaven’s sake, they have only been capable of checking 1% of imports, even though we all know the countries we import some of this stuff from just don’t do business like us, nor do they even have the pretense of striving for higher standards. So 3 million chickens - where would they start? With what staffing levels? And with idiots like Sundloff, would they even understand how to do this?

     Can’t feed own pets - DANGER, DANGER, lol… Does anyone wonder if he really means this, or if not, if he feels at all embarassed about saying such a stupid thing, esp. to Americans who are routinely in charge of feeding their own families, ie KIDS?

     And fwiw, the only reason I am having an issue feeding homecooking is that THE FLIPPING CHICKENS ARE POISONED TOO! Fix that little “mistake” and I’ll do fine, you joker. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr./

     Comment by TC — May 3, 2007 @ 3:31 pm

123. RE: “…MAY BE SUFFERING KIDNEY DAMAGE THAT WON’T BE EVIDENT FOR YEARS” - Dr. Wilson Rumbeiha, working with the FDA on contamination problem

     “…Rumbeiha is working with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on the pet food contamination.

     It’s important to note that the two doctors quoted in the article think THERE MAY BE A RISK as compared to the FDA’s David Acheson saying there is minimal risk, explaining the “dilution theory.”
     *******************

     Rumbeiha, Dr. Bruce Dixon, director of the Allegheny County Health Department, and other doctors and veterinarians said that while people and many pets are unlikely to become seriously ill immediately after consuming tainted foods, they may be suffering kidney damage that won’t be evident for years.”

     Quote from Dr. Bruce Dixon who also worked with the FDA on the issue: “It’s not unlike secondhand smoke; it’s not unlike asbestos; it’s not like aspirin and phenacetin, which affected kidneys. It’s a slowly damaging process,” Dixon said. “I don’t think anybody has the data yet to suggest it’s not a significant risk. I think it is.”

     **********************
     Quotes above are from Karen Roebuck’s excellent article.

     I guess the FDA press conference did not report everyone’s thoughts on the possibility of kidney damage. Someone’s going to be enrolled in “FDA-Speak 101.”

     http://www.pittsburghlive.com/.....05650.html

     Comment by petlover — May 3, 2007 @ 3:34 pm

124. And as to refusing to give names with respect to the tainted chicken and pork? This agency has no valid purpose that I can see anymore.

     Seriously, for all the money we spend, what the heck do they do? They don’t check imports, nor can they do recalls, nor do they even SHARE with us the information they have on current TAINTED products, so that we could decide for ourselves. They don’t have the manpower to do much of anything.

     Boy this has cheesed me off big time.

     Comment by TC — May 3, 2007 @ 3:35 pm

125. I guess we’re all going to have kidney failure and die along with our pets. Who will buy their poisoned food then?

     Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 3:37 pm

126. Sharon,have your vet contact Corrnell Univ. in Albany,New York. or Univ.Of Davis Southern California. I’M so sorry about your cat

     Comment by Mary Ann — May 3, 2007 @ 3:39 pm

127. Sure would love to be a fly on the wall at one of these FDA VIP type’s houses. Particularly one with pets. Maybe then, I’d know what is and isn’t safe to feed my pets or myself?

     Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 3:39 pm

128. Does this sound like somethings coming soon? You bet it does.

     Bloomberg: Is this a limited problem?

     Acheson: To date, yes.

     Are the only test reports they are discussing the one’s on the two known suppliers of tainted protect. Sounds like it to me.

     Baltimore Sun: Found melamine in any other veg protein products? Identified other importers who rec’d tainted imports?

     Acheson: Only in US wheat gluten and RCP. Corn gluten was in South Africa. Can we rule it out? No.

     Baltimore Sun: Any other importers?

     Acheson: Import alert only going several days. But so far only those two.

     Bloomberg News: Asked about samples tested.

     Acheson: “Too many numbers in one press conference.”

     I guess they’re waiting for someone to independently verify tainted products before they come forward with an announcement. The cynic in me says they’ve already made the political decision that the “dilution effect” means its OK to let humans consume the stuff and with the short shelf life of all the breads and baked goods most of the product will be gone by the time any recalls might be called.

     Comment by alex — May 3, 2007 @ 3:45 pm

129. Sunshine Mills recall?? Heard a quick blurb on CNN

     Comment by Pat — May 3, 2007 @ 3:46 pm

130. http://www.sunshinemills.com/press_release.html

     Comment by Pat — May 3, 2007 @ 3:47 pm

131. Sunshine Mills? That’s from April 5th! Their website doesn’t indicate any expansion of it…

     Comment by Kim — May 3, 2007 @ 3:48 pm

132. It was something said during the Lou Dobbs probram… possibly a flashback of press release in the show… sighs.. my apologies for the confusion… I thnk I need to get away from this for awhile. I only wish I could. Everyday for the past month, I’m faced with making a decision for my 15yr old cat, as to whether or not ‘today’ will be her last or not, to end her suffering. Be well all.

     Comment by Pat — May 3, 2007 @ 3:56 pm

133. Blame Canada?

     Comment by Tidsy NOOOO! I love Canada!

     I know they have that hockey hullabaloo and that bitch Ann Murry too, but let’s not blame Canada!

     I think that there are a few bad apples, eh? But let’s not condemn the entire country.

     Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 3:56 pm

134. CHEMNUTRA FAQ (4/15/07)
     WHAT IS CHEMNUTRA’S RESPONSIBILITY IN THE PET DEATHS?
     What we know at this time is that the FDA suspects there may be a direct or indirect
     connection between pet deaths and illnesses and the melamine found in the wheat gluten
     supplied to ChemNutra by a single Chinese manufacturer, XuZhou Anying Biologic
     Technology Development Co. Ltd.

     We had no idea that melamine was an issue until being notified by the FDA on March 29.
     In fact, we had never heard of melamine before. It’s simply not a chemical even on the radar
     screen for food ingredient suppliers.

     (Spin away Mr. Stern!)

     Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 3:58 pm

135. Up until the 1990’s, our pet’s were fed mostly from the table with a few cans to supplement. They only saw the vet for shots. They had good teeth, shiny coats and lived beyond twelve years.
     Sadly in the 90’s I started feeding commercial foods due to some physical problems I had that kept me off my feet and unable to prepare regular meals, so I had many delivered back then. My poor German Shepherd Chelsea Leigh suffered with chronic allergies and eventually became paralyzed last year and had to be put down in September. She was one month shy of 12. It broke my heart. Her vet and I both suspected the food for both causes. Her vet bills alone were over $12,000.00. That doesn’t include special diets, extra supplements, handicap equipment (beds, ramps, bathing pools, special harnesses to help her walk).
     I can’t help but feel responsible for her illnesses. I’m the one who fed her.
     If I could turn-back-time, I would have called the butcher to deliver the best cuts of meat and organs and hired someone to cook for her.
     She deserved the very best. She was truly my best friend.
     I WILL NOT MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 3:58 pm

136. Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 3:19 pm

     My guess on the Menu cross contamination would be that they do not clean their equipment between food production runs. (They are not *required* to do so except in the case of medicated feed.) So, they produced Toxic-Pet-Food A, then went on to Wheat-Gluten-Free-Pet-Food B but didn’t clean the machines between runs. Now “B” has to recall since their food could have been contaminated from the dirty equipment even though the toxic ingredient was not used in their food specifically.

     Comment by slt — May 3, 2007 @ 4:01 pm

137. OK, Im sitting here scratching my head trying to figure out if we actually received any new info from FDA today? And I think the answer is a big fat NO. And I noticed that the vet they had on their panel was mysteriously quiet….did anyone else notice that?

     Comment by Sandi K — May 3, 2007 @ 4:03 pm

138. Answers to questions for me:

     1) Heather is OK. Thanks for asking. (Backstory: She was at the vet over the weekend for possible renal issues. It’s a UTI, responding to antibiotics.)

     2) University of California, Davis, is in Northern California, if you please. Davis is near Sacramento.

     3) FDA media briefings are being held on Tuesdays and Thursdays, at this point.

     Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 3, 2007 @ 4:07 pm

139. Sharon, You could send your vet to the AVMA page for veterinarians where they have a ton of information now. http://tinyurl.com/399o96

     OR to IDEXX, also a good source http://tinyurl.com/2u8unv

     I’m so sorry for you and your kitty. I’m hoping for the best.

     Comment by Marilyn — May 3, 2007 @ 4:11 pm

140. Acheson: “Too many numbers in one press conference.”

     Yep got that right buddy. Its actually too many numbers period, thousands to be exact, of dead and sick pets. OK, Acheson is now on my “absolutely cant stand to listen to” list along with Mr PFI, Ekedahl.

     Comment by Sandi K — May 3, 2007 @ 4:15 pm

141. Gina - glad to read Heather is ok.
     I hope she continues improving.

     Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 4:19 pm

142. Our chemical products are mostly used for additives, not for animal feed,” said Li Xiuping, manager at the Henan Xinxiang Huaxing Chemical Company in central Henan Province. “Melamine is mainly used in the chemical industry, but it can also be used in making cakes.”

     Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 4:20 pm

143. Steve - ChemNutra FAQ’s
     I have a hard time not laughing myself silly every time I read that.
     Incredible!
     Hope they have their plane tickets in hand.
     China-Air to Effem. lol 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:21 pm

144. “cakes”
     I liked that article, too.
     Beans has some sand cookies for him - still warm from her easy-bake oven!!! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:25 pm

145. Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:21 pm

     Their PR guy Stern might spin his way right into prison if he’s not careful.

     Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 4:26 pm

146. Speaking of Ekedahl where is he hiding out these days?

     Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 4:27 pm

147. Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 4:20 pm

     i was *trying* to wipe that from my memory!OY!!!!

     Comment by straybaby — May 3, 2007 @ 4:28 pm

148. Maybe it would help if we all just volunteer to help them check the food.
     And we could volunteer to inspect the pet food plants. Make sure everything is on the up-and-up.
     Is that what it’s gonna take to get done what needs to be done?
     I can’t afford to have food flown in from the EU. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:31 pm

149. Steve
     Maybe Miller’s counting on Stern to take the rap for him. Tsk, tsk. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:33 pm

150. Any word on Sally? 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:37 pm

151. Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:33 pm

     There’s no honor among thieves thats a given.

     Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 4:38 pm

152. Now don’t be mean to the esteemed weasel for the PFI, Duane Ekedahl, how would you like to have to take orders from the bunch of total bozos that run these companies?
     Makes me want to run right out and start a business cause if they can do it, I think my dead mother in law stands a good shot at being the next Bill Gates!

     Hogans Heroes, I know nuffingk!

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 4:41 pm

153. Someone’s going to be enrolled in “FDA-Speak 101.”

     The most difficult part of the press conferences is really listening to the answers. Remember these people are trained in how to answer questions. It is much what they don’t say as what they say.

     For example when questioned about did any of it (wheat gluten, rpc, etc) make it into the human food chain the response is “In current investigation,” ALL ended up in pet food system.

     He does not say NO, he says not yet, basically we haven’t found it yet, or we haven’t even started looking yet, or no cases of humans having kidney failure have been reported yet or not enough of them for us to investigate.

     If you will look at the responses like the one above, go back and read the press conference again and I will bet that all of us will start to see what they are really saying.

     My guess is, yes we found toxins in the food, yes it was fed to pets, yes it was fed to humans, yes pets died, people were not sure yet. We don’t want panic, we don’t want to kill commerce, we don’ want the American people to lose faith in their food supply.

     just my 2 cents

     sam

     Comment by sam — May 3, 2007 @ 4:42 pm

154. straybaby
     “Cakes” really takes the cake, huh! 8)
     I think I’ll make my son some pancakes for his birthday out of gluten-free, non-GMO flour with a beeswax candle that way if it melts on his pancake it will still be safe to eat.

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:44 pm

155. Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 4:41 pm

     Hey last nights recall nearly gave me a heart attack and now I’m really fightin’ mad.

     Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 4:50 pm

156. Sam
     You got a good ear!!!
     I think you heard it right. 8)
     Body language is another indicator. Would have liked to seen it.

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:50 pm

157. Between Bozo (’s) the Clown (’s), the Three Stooges and the Keystone Kops, I’d say we have a regular 3-ring circus going on.
     “Get your popcorn, peanuts, crackerjacks” 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 4:54 pm

158. Steve,
     I am there with you, you bloodhound you.
     Kiss on the lips, big fella, go get em!

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 4:55 pm

159. Kim said:
     “I can’t believe noone got to ask if the Menu Foods recall was related to the FDA inspection of the plant in Kansas last week.

     And I can’t believe nooone got to ask about the other rice protein importer.”

     Yes, and I can’t believe no one asked what the level of melamine was in all the pork meat samples they took to UC Davis - 10 days ago? Can’t even remember when. THAT would tell us a lot.

     And now that all the heavy hitters are actually COMING to these FDA press conferences, we’re not going to get any interesting questions asked, except for Karen and a couple of others, because those with intimate knowledge of all the facts on this long road are now being shut out.

     And shame on Dr. Sundlof for not being able to formulate a simple cat or dog dinner. I hope you’ve hired a qualified human nutritionist with a PhD. to help you in your daily consumption of food.

     Gina, glad to hear Heather is OK. Christie, thanks once again for your live blogging.

     Comment by CathyA — May 3, 2007 @ 4:55 pm

160. Comment by sam — May 3, 2007 @ 4:42 pm

     Sam I agree, how bout this one….”to understand relationship between melamine, cyanuric acid, and some of the other components that we’ve found in the wheat gluten and RPC.”

     I dont know if they are speaking of the ammeline and ammeloride or something else we dont know of…..I still dont know where the rat poison came from and have they been testing any more lots for that…oh I forgot, just a little rat poison isnt enough to cause the symptoms we’ve been seeing. Where’s Ally?! Ally, Im going off to bang my head on a wall for awhile….aargh!

     Comment by Sandi K — May 3, 2007 @ 4:56 pm

161. Sam,
     I think you got the tense wrong - many of us have already “lost” faith and commerce IS going to suffer!

     Comment by Patricia Hill — May 3, 2007 @ 5:00 pm

162. sam, I quite agree that gov officials tend to be very literal in their answers and it is in the empty spaces around the answers you finally get a clue as to what is going on. I’ve always thought they spent quite a bit of time looking at human food right from the start. They were probably sampling human grade wheat gluten everywhere from the get go. That is how they can say it only went to pet food. The pet food investigation sort of took second chair while that was going on.

     Comment by CathyA — May 3, 2007 @ 5:01 pm

163. So what’s the cost of living index in Effem lately? 8)
     Go ask Sally??!!

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

164. My dinner tonight——beef stew with okra, corn and potato chunks. Beverage-water. My doggie’s dinner tonite———beef stew with okra, potato chunks and a little extra bacon grease for flavor. Beverage-water.

     Comment by elizabeth R. — May 3, 2007 @ 5:16 pm

165. What’s with letting Ann Murray being called a b**** on this blog and then my objection to it is erased?. Well I suppose you must be in tight with SPOCKO or something. Kiss this blog goodbye if the rules don’t cut both ways.

     Comment by Linda — May 3, 2007 @ 5:27 pm

166. I thought I had managed to duck the petfood contamination issue, since the Kirkland Costco dry cat food wasn’t on the recall list, and the NuPet (Save-Mart house brand) wasn’t either. Today I walk into Save-Mart and see that the NuPet Sliced Chicken canned has been pulled for possible melamine cross-contamination. Which was, guess what, the stuff I just gave Athena this morning. I phoned my son and told him to take it away from the cats and dump it. I know she ate some, but not very much. I’m going to check the UPC codes and dates before I start worrying. She’s due for a vet exam and boosters on Tuesday, so I’ll have them run a blood panel and urinalysis for peace of mind.
     My vet says they haven’t seen any affected animals in Patterson (CA), although worried people have been bringing in animals for tests.

     If the UPC and date codes match the ones on the recall sheet, then I will take her in ASAP. Though the last time I did that (I thought she had eaten aspirin) they couldn’t make her bring anything up. She just wouldn’t puke. She was OK though.

     What’s a good source of cat vitamins to mix in the home-made stuff I’m going to make now?

     I just wish that Save-Mart had pulled the stuff earlier, though. I did try to tell them…

     Comment by Clare — May 3, 2007 @ 5:27 pm

167. Sandi wrote

     I dont know if they are speaking of the ammeline and ammeloride or something else we dont know of….

     Probably the something else.

     As to the rat poison that the researchers in NY found. If I remember correctly salvaged melamine can contain all kinds of stuff including rat poison, insecticides, adhesives,etc.

     Sooooo again they don’t want to reveal what is really inside this stuff, that would panic the population.

     As CathyA points out they are very literal about their responses. Trick is to ask the right question. FDA speak like all political speak is that you answer only EXACTLY what is asked nothing more. They DO NOT volunteer any information that has not already been made public.

     As to them sampling human food, keep in mind that they have not found any in current production, that is what they said, nothing about anything already on the shelves, or what has already been consumed. In fact they admit that we have already eaten contaminated food, with toxic substances in them already, however the dilution effect protects us.

     What is he really saying?
     What words is he using to define the problem or solutions?

     They all are very vague terms, that can be interpreted any way you would like. Words like Dilution, ongoing, not at this time, numbers, percentages in ranges of .2-8%, NONE OF THESE WORDS have a meaning in the real world.

     Ask yourself, like I do, Do I know more after the press conference than I did before? if the answer is NO then they have done their job.

     sam

     Comment by sam — May 3, 2007 @ 5:33 pm

168. Since we can’t make our own food I got a list of ingredients of one that is not YET recalled: (9 Lives)

     Meat by-products, fish, water sufficient for processing, poultry by-products, fish broth, tuna, shrimp, wheat gluten, calcium carbonate, wheat flour, sodium tripolyphosphate, salt, titanium dioxide, guar gum, potassium chloride, dried whey, steamed bone meal, natural flavor, choline chloride, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), carrageenan, taurine, minerals (magnesium oxide, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), iron oxide, caramel color, sodium nitrite (to promote color retention), red 3.

     This sounds so yummy (choke..choke) Anyone know where I can get these wonderful ingredients, since there is NO WAY I could possibly match the nutrition in this food with my meager attempts at home cooking. (choke..choke..choke)

     Comment by msl — May 3, 2007 @ 5:34 pm

169. elizabeth R.
     Tell me you’re not enjoying cooking and dining with your baby!
     I forgot how much fun it was cooking for the family (6 kids, various dogs, cats and birds).
     For the past year it’s just been my son and I.
     Now I call (yeah, like I need to - lol) my furkids into the kitchen to watch mom cook for all of us.
     Now we have quality family time!!! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 5:45 pm

170. Kathi, absolutely———my pooch is 115 lbs so it’s pretty much just like cooking for another person here!

     Comment by elizabeth R. — May 3, 2007 @ 5:48 pm

171. Anna, my little 4 1/2 # Peke/Chi is sizing up a raw buffalo bone (3” x 3” x 3”).
     This will be entertainment for the evening! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 5:54 pm

172. Clare,

     I got my cat vitamins at Whole Foods. There’s a risk of overdose for oil-soluble vitamins (A, E, etc.) so don’t exceed the recommended dosage on a pet multivitamin. Which, you know, you probably wouldn’t. I’m just sayin’.

     Comment by Katherine — May 3, 2007 @ 5:57 pm

173. And they are doing this without cameras because that way you cannot see them squirm!

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 6:00 pm

174. elizabeth R.
     You brave enough to let him/her sit at the table yet?
     Mine are spoiled rotten. I keep saying “somebody needs to train you guys.”
     But how much fun would that be. I get so much pleasure out of these little characters.
     They sleep with me, too. What’s a little fur on the pillow? Thewpt thewpt!!!! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 6:01 pm

175. E. Hamilton
     I think they’ve been getting their info from us. I mentioned awhile back about the “eye-movement” lie detector test and the body language with the finger and hand movements after both of the hearings.
     It’s one of my favorite passtimes. I used to court-sit and watch witnesses on the stand.
     My kids hated it, they couldn’t squirm out of anything. - lol. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 6:09 pm

176. Perhaps it is not cross contamination at Menu. Perhaps it is that they just pumped out the same formulation and put in the cans supplied by the pet food companies. All for one and one for all.

     Comment by elliott — May 3, 2007 @ 6:10 pm

177. Comment by Steve — May 3, 2007 @ 3:58 pm

     “We had no idea that melamine was an issue until being notified by the FDA on March 29.
     In fact, we had never heard of melamine before. It’s simply not a chemical even on the radar
     screen for food ingredient suppliers.”

     I stumbled upon this 1991 USDA gov. manual that has a protocol for testing for melamine residues (and cyromazine) in “poultry, red meat tissues, and processed products.” So this isn’t a new phenomenon. Don’t know if it was a big problem then, though.

     http://www.fsis.usda.gov/ophs/clg/Cyromazine.pdf

     Comment by Maureen — May 3, 2007 @ 6:14 pm

178. E.
     The more seasoned ones do rapid blinking or head bowing to avoid detection, but if you watch closely, you can catch it. It’s that slight , quick shifting of the eyes while answering a question you don’t want to answer.
     I noticed the Reps. and Sens. looked straight-forward, they weren’t required to answer. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 6:15 pm

179. About Canada?
     “I think that there are a few bad apples, eh? But let’s not condemn the entire country. “

     Oh thanks,Spocko!!
     I was hoping SOMEONE would say that.We’re not all bad up here….. honest…..
     in spite of Henderson’s unconscionable behaviour to date.We’re not all like him.Not even close.

     Pets have died up here too,although you’d never know it by following the media.Barbara Budd,As It Happens,last night mentioned the 16 deaths.And to add insult to injury she added,”One Six”.
     I hope I wasn’t the only one to fire off an email.Incidentaly,does anyone know if we have a terrific site like this one, in Canada ???
     Thanks Spocko!

     Lorna

     Comment by Lorna — May 3, 2007 @ 6:16 pm

180. Kathi, no, at our house pets sitting at the table is off limits, but his bowl is very close by and he is always available and alert for handouts and food which may be “accidently” dropped on the floor. At his size he is not allowed on the bed but he does manage to “sneak” up there sometimes in the middle of the night when it’s really, really stormy and he’s scared. The cats do have their fav spots on the bed and do not appreciate it when the dog worms his way up. I am so grateful I don’t have fur and dander allergies and feel so bad for those who do.

     Comment by elizabeth R. — May 3, 2007 @ 6:17 pm

181. elliot wrote

     “Perhaps it is not cross contamination at Menu.”

     Here is one of the contradictions of the press conference. If they didn’t clean the machines and the cross contamination occured then the level of toxins would have been very low. Then how could that have made a pet sick or die. There would have been a huge “dilution factor” there.

     And yet they want us to believe that our dilution factor is safe?? Again FDA speak.

     Either the levels of toxins are really high, the toxins are extremely dangerous or Menu didn’t change the formula at all, which one is it. We didn’t get answers on that either.

     sam

     Comment by sam — May 3, 2007 @ 6:19 pm

182. I think after the ChemNutra fiasco Menu was desperate and scrambling to get another replacement protein source (wheat? rice? corn? whatever they could find) ….and it also was not adequately vetted and turned out to be adulterated. I do not buy the cross contamination story for a minute.

     Comment by elizabeth R. — May 3, 2007 @ 6:25 pm

183. Ya know, if I worked for the FDA I would absolutely not call on Christie Keith (girl reporter) to ask any questions - I guarantee they’d be questions I wouldn’t want to answer.

     I am grateful to you, Christie, and to your fellow bloggers for keeping this story alive, collecting links and acting as a clearinghouse for relevant information. You’ve been providing more accurate coverage and commentary than the old-school media. You should be proud.

     Comment by Paul — May 3, 2007 @ 6:40 pm

184. “I think that there are a few bad apples, eh?”

     LOL
     Ijust caught the ‘eh’ word.Are you actually a Canuck then,Spocko?
     Or just playing with one of our lingual idiosyncracies??

     Lorna
     Canadian,eh?

     Comment by Lorna — May 3, 2007 @ 6:53 pm

185. Oh, this blog , and others have LOTS of eyes on them, some from the FDA and some from big pet food companies, even some of the posters here are employed by spin doctors.
     It was expected.

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 7:12 pm

186. Maureen - 6:14 pm
     Did you read through that document?
     Given Cyromazine is an insecticide.
     But, it did say Melamine/Cyromazine is toxic by ingestion???
     Why was this being tested?
     Maybe this USDA test was how the FDA found melamine??!!! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 7:12 pm

187. Gee, E.
     I didn’t notice any posters, did you - lol 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 7:14 pm

188. We are, afterall, just a bunch of hysterical nut cases!!! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 7:16 pm

189. E.
     You wouldn’t be from the “tundra” would ya?
     If you are, you’ll know what that means. It has to do with what you said way back when, about a doc with a vetmobile. Just curious. I had a vet like that from tundra-territory. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 7:19 pm

190. Is STEVE on?

     Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 7:22 pm

191. RE:”I stumbled upon this 1991 USDA gov. manual that has a protocol for testing for melamine residues (and cyromazine) in “poultry, red meat tissues, and processed products.” So this isn’t a new phenomenon. Don’t know if it was a big problem then, though.

     http://www.fsis.usda.gov/ophs/clg/Cyromazine.pdf Comment by Maureen — May 3, 2007 @ 6:14 pm”

     This is a very interesting article.

     cyromazine is a commonly used pesticide in the US and elsewhere.

     http://www.pesticideinfo.org/D.....Id=PC33510

     Melamine is a metabolite of cyromazine:

     Residue determination of cyromazine and its metabolite melamine in chard samples by ion-pair liquid chromatography coupled to electrospray tandem mass spectrometry

     http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=a.....t=16514561

     Why would they have been running tests in 1991 on poultry, red meat tissues, and processed products. Obviously there must have been a least a question of this product getting into the food chain or meats.

     Combine that with the additional poisons being added to the grain products imported from China and VOILA we have a true cocktail of death!!

     Anyone with more of a chemistry undertanding want to take a stab at this one?

     Comment by msl — May 3, 2007 @ 7:26 pm

192. Some testing the EPA did on dogs for assessing the safety of Cyromazine:

     __I.A.2. Principal and Supporting Studies (Oral RfD)
     Ciba-Geigy Corp. 1980. MRID No. 00103193. Available from EPA. Write to FOI, EPA, Washington, DC 20460.

     Cyromazine was administered to 56 beagle dogs (7/sex/group) at 0, 30, 300, and 3000 ppm for 6 months. Pronounced effects on the hematocrit and hemoglobin levels were noted at 300 and 3000 ppm. The systemic NOEL was established at 30 ppm (0.75 mg/kg/day).

     http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0220.htm

     Comment by msl — May 3, 2007 @ 7:37 pm

193. “FDA received more than 12,000 reports during the past four weeks, which is more than twice the number of complaints that our consumer compliant coordinators typically receive in a year.”

     This was on 4/12/07,Testimony By

     Stephen F. Sundlof, D.V.M., Ph.D.,
     Director, FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine,
     Department of Health and Human Services
     before

     The Senate Agriculture, Rural Development,
     and Related Agencies Appropriations
     Subcommittee

     Link:
     http://www.fda.gov/ola/2007/petfood041207.html

     Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 7:39 pm

194. I found the test they are using to test for melamine in the dog food right now, but not sure if it’s useful here. Does anybody need that? It’s all scientific and I didn’t understand it myself.

     Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 7:44 pm

195. Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 7:12 pm

     Remember too - the media is here as well. They’ve been invited and are welcome here!

     Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 7:46 pm

196. Been reading all the writing and thought I’d put in my two cents…a six month old pup of mine is just getting over a close call with what I believe to be from bad food. food NOT yet on recall list. A mix of purina mainstay and prime cuts. Symptoms: lethargy, EXCESSIVE thirst, followed by puking up the water which was frothy. This lasted 4 days, no eat or urinating. thought dog was gonna croak. I seroiusly think the stuff is still being put in food, maybe at what manufacuturers would hope could slip by. If a pet food manufacturer has used this in one type of food it produces, what’s to say it isn’t also put in other brands it produces???????melissa

     Comment by melissa griffin — May 3, 2007 @ 7:49 pm

197. http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opa-torx.html

     This ain’t pretty.
     Use your find feature (Ctrl / F) and find “Melamine” and then also do the same for “Food”. We have all kinds of nasties in our food.

     Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 7:55 pm

198. The government knew anout testing melamine all along. They just don’t think it is of any concern:

     EPA also proposes to remove melamine, a metabolite of cyromazine from
     the tolerance expression since it is no longer considered a residue of
     concern. The Interregional Research Project (IR-4) and Novartis Crop
     Protection, Inc., requested these tolerances under the Federal Food,
     Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as amended by the Food Quality Protection Act
     of 1996.

     http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EP.....p24047.htm

     Comment by msl — May 3, 2007 @ 7:55 pm

199. Melamine and rice protein concentrate in the human food chain is nothing to worry about? I saw my rheumatologist today, went over a lab test from a couple of weeks ago, and he told me I have “protein leaking into my urine” from an unknown source! He said it’s the first signs of kidney failure….I’m having the test repeated to make sure it’s accurate….I’ll let you know if I’ve been melamined…

     Comment by CathyM — May 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm

200. On cross contamination -

     A friend used to work at one of the large U.S. breweries, and I asked him about cross contamination on a production line. He told me that whenever they switched from one kind of beer to another, the previous product kept coming out of the pipes for a while, then you got a mix of the previous product and the newer one, then eventually the older stuff got flushed out of the system and only the newer beer came out.

     During this changeover phase they never stopped putting beer into bottles.

     The expensive, premium beers are always what they’re supposed to be. You might also find premium beer in a regular bottle, if it was made during the changeover, but you’d never find regular beer in a premium bottle. The rule was that you could always put something better into a particular bottle, but never worse.

     A lite-beer bottle must really contain lite beer, because the labeling guarantees its carb content, but lite beer could to into a regular bottle, because the regular beer’s label made no such promise.

     The cheapest, bottom-of-the-line beer’s bottle could contain absolutly anything - light beer, premium beer, special boutique beer, a random mixture of any of the above, or it might contain exactly what it’s supposed to.

     In one of the pet food hearings, it was stated that there is no requirement for a pet food production line to be cleaned unless a perscription/special diet product was being made. Dr. Hodgkins commented that you could sometimes see the wrong ‘kibbles and bits’ in a can of pet food. Most of the time, it’s all brown mush, anyway.

     Depending on what is being made, if the in-between mixture is really terrible, they might sell it as salvage - hogs don’t mind mixed ocean fish pate and beef cuts n’ gravy with their melamine.

     This might explain why a cat will sometimes like or dislike a particular batch of a commerical food.

     Comment by Paul — May 3, 2007 @ 7:59 pm

201. Further to the cyromazine/melamine link:(do a search..Control+F for melamine)

     Melamine was initially included in the tolerance expression for
     cyromazine because of limited evidence of its carcinogenic potential in
     laboratory animals. At that time EPA agreed with FDA’s Cancer
     Assessment Committee that melamine was not a carcinogen, per se, but
     was indirectly responsible for the induction of urinary bladder
     neoplasia through production of stones in the bladder.

     http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EP.....p24047.htm

     Comment by msl — May 3, 2007 @ 8:03 pm

202. http://dceg.cancer.gov/pdfs/ha.....172004.pdf

     Huge study - workers exposed to formaldehyde, including melamine

     Comment by shelly — May 3, 2007 @ 8:03 pm

203. msl
     Alibaba does sell melamine/Cyromazine in powder form. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 8:03 pm

204. Comment by kathi:

     This whole melamine/Cyromazine link is most interesting, especially combined with the further tainted grains. And the government was well aware of the connection back as far as 1991 or maybe earlier.

     sorry I misspelled my name should have been mal

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 8:07 pm

205. The media is more than welcome , I hope they find the vanishing documents and the antics of other media as entertaining as I do.

     I am very encouraged by the watching eyes, they do such…incriminating things.
     And do so few “honest” or open actions that it makes a point that could not be made otherwise.

     Cover ups and lies and spin make such juicy material for writers. I think careers are going to be made.

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 8:09 pm

206. RE:Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 8:09 pm

     The reason the reporters and pet food companies come here is that there is more in depth information being brought to light by all the “crazies” here than through any other source. Bloody amazing isn’t it??

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 8:19 pm

207. Bloody embarrassing too!

     Maybe we should do some media events?
     People who are telling the truth always come off so much better than liars and spin artists, don’t you think?

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 8:28 pm

208. Sorry mal - should have guessed it was you.
     I wonder if it comes in “pink”???
     Insecticide/cyromazine could be one of the mystery ingredients.
     During the first recall, of those who published comments immediately afterwards and just learned what may have caused their pets to die, I had noticed some reported death within days and others over a period of a week or weeks while some reported severe illness. That’s why I think there are probably many toxins included with the melamine.
     If you go to Alibaba and look at melamine plus the other ingredients along with it, it wouldn’t seem surprising that there are plenty to choose from. One in particular offered rodenticide plus melamine. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 8:36 pm

209. Many of the “wild panic statements” made here and on several other blogs over the last 7 weeks were labelled as over-reations and conspiracy theories gone wild. The sad reality is that most of the theories that were researched and backed up with some tangible evidence have shown themselves to be true. This is being done by a wide range of “average, common” (albeit determined and highly-motivated)
     people, armed only with their computers and a quest for the truth. Imagine what could be unearthed with trained professionals (willing to be honest) and access to information not available on the internet. {{{SHUDDER}}}}

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 8:36 pm

210. RE:Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 8:36 pm

     I think what has happened is that too amny things have been thrown into the kettle from too many different sources. A touch of melamine, a pinch of cyanide, a teaspoon of rat poison, a hint of Cyromazine..stir well and simmer over low heat.

     DINNER IS SERVED!!

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 8:39 pm

211. mal, now don’t be giving any of these fine sweet folks any ideas.

     Every plane to china or places with no extradition treaty would be full.

     Speaking of which, any word on Sally?

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 8:41 pm

212. Paul
     I believe that’s true with colas, too.
     Every once in awhile I get one that doesn’t taste quite right.
     Ever get a green bean in your corn?? 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 8:43 pm

213. I just don’t get it. Maybe someone smarter than me can enlighten me. On April 3, the FDA says that the “vast majority” went to pet food makers but some of those make human food as well. (Any cross-contamination here?) In my simple mind, “vast majority” does not mean ALL. So it says that some went to actual human food makers. But, today, the FDA says ALL the shipments were ONLY used in pet food, and the “dilution effect” means our human food is safe. If 17 tons of this stuff is the total, then is the “vast majority”…what? All but 3 tons? 4? 5? Is “vast majority” the same as “all?” So when they reported it went to noodles to health food, everyone at the FDA was lying THEN, but they aren’t now? When they say they will only give out information that has been confirmed, then did the “vast majority” disappear to become “all?” When last week it was in noddles, it isn’t now? Why? Did we already eat it, so it has become “all” is in pet food NOW? Did you see my problem? I guess I’m just too stupid to figure this out (or else the FDA hopes that I am) NOT!

     Comment by Cheryl Hansen — May 3, 2007 @ 8:44 pm

214. There’s something else my simple mind can’t figure out. If this has been going on for years, and the FDA can’t find any samples let to test…then how can they say without a doubt than none went into the human food supply? Oh, yeah! I get it. It’s nothing to worry about because I don’t eat just one thing a day on my plate…it’s been “diluted” by now. Like, am I suppose to be HAPPY that I ate fertilizer, but it didn’t hurt me, so don’t worry about it? Let’s all say MINIMIZE the problem, shall we? Then, if I ate fertilizer, but it didn’t hurt me, then didn’t I, at the very least, pay for something I did get…like FOOD? Don’t they owe me a refund? If my dog at fertilizer with no nutritive value, but he’s OK, then shouldn’t I get a refund because I didn’t get what I paid for…like, FOOD? And, then let’s just skim right over all those pet deaths and illnesses. The entire US government can’t “confirm” what scientists all over the world has already determined and proved by using the “SCIENTIFIC METHOD, because…duh, they are scientists, so that’s what they do. So, in my simple little mind, I can only conclude that the FDA must be simple-minded, too because they can’t figure it out either. (shhhhh! I just heard Mars whispering “Tainted Love” in their ear).

     Comment by Cheryl Hansen — May 3, 2007 @ 8:54 pm

215. My friends are getting concerned when I start spewing chemistry at them. Even my son (who is autistic and never interested in what I’m doing)is starting to ask for computer time so he can search for some of these chemicals.
     It was the hog story on the news that got his attention. He even walked to the store to buy a dictionary. So I’d say by his reaction that this is a very important issue. By the way, my son’s nickname is Mr. Spock - !!! 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 8:58 pm

216. Cheryl

     I really believe that the scope of this is going to shock all of us and the FDA is still trying to prevent a panic situation. They have admitted that we have eaten chicken with toxins over the last few months, some may still be on the store shelves and we are still eating it today.

     They blow us off by talking about this “dilution effect” which to me is just FDA speak for “we really don’t know how bad it is yet”

     sam

     Comment by sam — May 3, 2007 @ 8:58 pm

217. Cheryl Hansen
     I think the plan is to convince us we need Prozac. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 9:05 pm

218. Oh we’re way beyond Prozac.
     They may have luck with Halodol as one commentor suggested awhile back.

     Comment by Ally — May 3, 2007 @ 9:11 pm

219. Sam
     The tip-off was their request to the CDC for increased reports of renal failure in humans. 8)
     That report will probably not be made public, unless we dig for it in their database.

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 9:11 pm

220. Ally
     Or maybe some of those funky mushrooms from the 60’s. 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 9:13 pm

221. The Washington Post has a disturbing article

     excerpt:

     …”Adding to the consternation over China’s export of tainted foods, officials in Mississippi and Alabama said yesterday that they have ordered all stores in those states to stop selling catfish from China after multiple samples were found to be illegally contaminated with antibiotics.

     Last month, officials with Alabama’s Department of Agriculture and Industries announced it had tested 20 samples from more than 200,000 pounds of imported Chinese catfish and found 14 of them contaminated with fluoroquinolone antibiotics.

     The FDA in 1997 banned the use of those antibiotics in food animals or imports after tests indicated that their use was leading to the emergence of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

     The drugs are still used in some countries to prevent infection and promote growth in farm-raised fish grown in crowded conditions.

     Although federal officials said the fluoroquinolone test is of questionable accuracy at levels less than 5 parts per billion (ppb), Alabama and other states have a “zero tolerance” standard, state officials said. Catfish that tested positive in Alabama had levels that ranged from less than 1 ppb to more than 10 ppb.

     That discovery prompted Alabama’s agriculture commissioner, Ron Sparks, to issue a statewide “stop sale” order for all catfish imported from China — which in turn prompted officials in Mississippi to conduct similar tests on four store-bought Chinese catfish.

     Both states have major catfish industries that in recent years have been threatened by cheap Chinese imports. The latest round of testing (others more than a year ago also came up positive) comes as Alabama lawmakers are poised to consider legislation, supported by local growers, that would require “country of origin” labeling for catfish sold in restaurants. Such labeling is already required for store-bought catfish, all of which were positive.

     Roger Barlow, president of the Catfish Institute in Jackson, Miss., and executive vice president of the Catfish Farmers of America, both trade groups, said the fraction of the nation’s market for catfish that is supplied by domestic farm-raised fillets has dropped 30 percent since the peak in 2003. By contrast, he said, Chinese imports of catfish in the first two months of 2007 were more than 700 percent higher than in the same period last year.

     “It’s what we term the Asian invasion,” Barlow said. Tests on domestic catfish have repeatedly come up negative for fluoroquinolones, he said, and U.S. catfish-farming techniques have garnered praise from many environmental groups.

     Correspondent Ariana Eunjung Cha in Shanghai contributed to this report.”

     http://tinyurl.com/ys4wl6

     Comment by Kat — May 3, 2007 @ 9:15 pm

222. Take every crazy conspiracy movie you have ever seen, add the poisoning of the entire country for 15 years and multiply by the true number of dead pets. Toss it all in a Menu Foods blender for a whirl and then slap a label that says caviar on it and THAT is where we are.

     I don’t think drugs will help but I am willing to mainline LSD if that is what it takes to make sense of this situation. OOps, I think some of the guys at the FDA beat me to it, they have friends in the business.

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 9:23 pm

223. Thanks to all of you, CitiZen Journalists for your excellent work providing real information on this evolving pet and human food crisis.

     Comment by Princess Haiku — May 3, 2007 @ 9:28 pm

224. Glad Melamine is not harmful:

     International Chemical Safety Cards
     MELAMINE ICSC: 1154

     EFFECTS OF LONG-TERM OR REPEATED EXPOSURE:
     When ingested in large amounts the substance may have effects on the kidneys and bladder, resulting in stone formation

     (So please restrict the amounts of melamine laced pork, chicken and grain products to avoid repeated or long-term exposure. How long has this been goin on already??)

     CHEMICAL DANGERS:
     The substance decomposes on heating or on burning producing toxic and irritating fumes including hydrogen cyanide, nitrogen oxides, and ammonia.

     (So if eating melamine laced chicken or pork be careful not to cook the chicken too much. This will prevent toxic fumes from being released.)

     http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1154.html

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 9:30 pm

225. FDA Speak

     Lets look at “Dilution Effect”

     FDA Speak: dilution effect

     Translation: We know that over one million chickens have been eaten by at least one million people, better estimate 2 million, but since there has not been large reports of kidney failure the chemical toxins must have been diluted.

     This is backwards logic.

     What they are really telling us is that it is OK for us to ingest poison. That over 2 million American people have ingested poisons and that is just fine. That there is nothing to worry about because since we haven’t fallen over dead yet we are OK. Nothing about long term effects, or the fact that it is their job to prevent mass poisoning of the American people. So we are all worrying needlessly because poison when diluted is OK.

     Isn’t that like saying a “little bit pregnant”
     “little bit dead” etc.
     sam

     Comment by sam — May 3, 2007 @ 9:32 pm

226. So mix the “non toxic” melamine together with the cynaruric acid and add up to 15 years of “long-tern” exposure. No problem !!!

     International Chemical Safety Cards
     CYANURIC ACID ICSC: 1313

     EFFECTS OF LONG-TERM OR REPEATED EXPOSURE:
     When ingested in large amounts the substance may have effects on the kidneys , resulting in tissue lesions.

     http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1313.html

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 9:43 pm

227. mal, I have a good idea what those lesions look like too!

     Comment by E. Hamilton — May 3, 2007 @ 9:57 pm

228. All this information was already in the hands of government agencies, yet they say that this whole disaster is nothing for people to worry about. The existing tests indicate that there is at least some reason for concern and there has never been any long term testing done so they really don’t know what may already be happening. They are barely owning up to the devastation this has caused to thousands and thousands of pets. There is no way they will ever come clean on the possible reprecussions in the human food chain. It would totally shake up the entire economy.

     Time for bed. Too many chemical formulas and thoughts of interactions swirling around in my poor tired brain.

     Comment by mal — May 3, 2007 @ 10:07 pm

229. The FDA has claimed that the “dilution effect” means that melamine tainted food is not dangerous to humans. Since they don’t seem to have any scientific data to back them up, I propose that we begin human melamine testing. And I have the perfect group of “humans” to volunteer. If we use all the executives from all the suspect pet food companies, along with their boards of directors, I think we should have a large enough study group to make our results statistically significant. (I hope the IRB will look the other way) I propose Paul Henderson as study subject #1. I know I would sleep better at night knowing that the
     FDA was really looking out for my best interests. And think of all the money we taxpayers would save by not having to support them in jail.

     Comment by joyce — May 3, 2007 @ 10:10 pm

230. Went shopping for fish and my favorite tilapia is now from China.
     So where are golfish from??? - lol - 8)

     Comment by Kathi — May 3, 2007 @ 10:30 pm

231. I honestly thing we’ve been eating this garbarge for years now. I used to work at a military hospital as an appointment and referral specialist (love how the new job titles always include specialist or engineer…lol). We had so many people calling in with UTI problems everyday and especially in young children. The referrals for urology were huge too. I now find it interesting that all these people have bladder and kidney problems. It was one of the biggest reasons for appointments and referrals. I wonder if there is evidence somewhere that there are a significant more cases of bladder and kidney problems with people. My daughter had UTI’s when she was very young because she had a very narrow urethra. She had such a horrible infection when she was 2 that she almost died. The doctors said that she would eventually grow out of it. Well she has not had any problems since she was 3 or 4 until now. She is getting them again. She had a UTI about 1 1/2 months ago that did not get better with first round of meds and had to take another round of different meds. I took her to the dr. yesterday and she has ANOTHER UTI. The dr said she has pus in her urine. I was horrified. We eat ALOT of chicken. We live overseas and the fresh chicken is from local farms or Danish farms (eggs too). However, I rarely buy the fresh because it is so expensive. We eat tons of frozen chicken from the States. I guess the FDA didn’t think about all the frozen chicken that is out there that may not have been consumed yet. Not to mention all the chicken that goes into prepared frozen or canned foods.

     Comment by Tammy — May 4, 2007 @ 12:41 am

232. Well, well…..look what I just found.

     May 2, 2007 — U.S. medical care costs for urologic diseases neared $11 billion in 2000, with urinary tract infections leading the list of costliest conditions.

     http://www.emedicinehealth.com.....ekey=80879

     I’m going to do some more digging.

     Comment by Tammy — May 4, 2007 @ 3:35 am

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