Comments on: Pet Food Recall: Researchers identify three other contaminants in urine, kidneys of pets who ate recalled foods http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/ Blogging by a team of pet-care experts led by Dr. Marty Becker. Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:52:24 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Bob Huffman http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-36888 Bob Huffman Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:07:05 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-36888 I found this link http://www.aqua-shine.com/Index/CyanuricAcid.htm where it says melamine is used to determine the amount of cyanuric acid in pool water. "A reagent called melamine is used. The melamine combines with the cyanuric acid in the water to form a fine, insoluble, white precipitate that causes the water to cloud in proportion to the amount of cyanuric acid in it. When the water clouds, it becomes more difficult to see an object in it." An "insoluble precipitate" would surely mess up the kidneys and maybe that's the mechanism of harm the researchers are looking for. I found this link

http://www.aqua-shine.com/Index/CyanuricAcid.htm

where it says melamine is used to determine the amount of cyanuric acid in pool water.

“A reagent called melamine is used. The melamine combines with the cyanuric acid in the water to form a fine, insoluble, white precipitate that causes the water to cloud in proportion to the amount of cyanuric acid in it. When the water clouds, it becomes more difficult to see an object in it.”

An “insoluble precipitate” would surely mess up the kidneys and maybe that’s the mechanism of harm the researchers are looking for.

]]> By: CathyA http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35889 CathyA Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:18:14 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35889 cripes, I should go back to bed.....infestation of the melamine plant......not wheat plant.....sort of like having moths in a granary! cripes, I should go back to bed…..infestation of the melamine plant……not wheat plant…..sort of like having moths in a granary!

]]> By: CathyA http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35888 CathyA Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:16:32 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35888 Oh yeah Dora, to flesh out one thought: it may not have anything to do with wheat itself, but perhaps having melamine all over the place for blocks around the melamine plant. Melamine eating bacteria would be dominant in the soil and perhaps the presence of the breakdown products is a sort of an "infestation" of the plant itself. Oh yeah Dora, to flesh out one thought: it may not have anything to do with wheat itself, but perhaps having melamine all over the place for blocks around the melamine plant. Melamine eating bacteria would be dominant in the soil and perhaps the presence of the breakdown products is a sort of an “infestation” of the plant itself.

]]> By: CathyA http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35883 CathyA Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:09:37 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35883 Yes Dora, some of my questions exactly! Bacteria are pretty good at breaking down atrazine in the soil, the ones with a specific enzyme that is. So far I've found evidence of several species of everyday soil bacteria that have this enzyme and some tinkering by scientists to put this ability into other bacteria. For these bacteria Melamine is food and the 3 "new" toxins listed are ones common to breakdown by bacteria. I think I'm way too tired to try and find out how cats and dogs would metabolize the 3 breakdown products, but that IS a question that needs to be answered. Also I have no idea if a plant would "take up" the metabolites or the melamine into their tissue and become systemic or concentrated in the wheat seed. That's another whole search. It could just be plain old dirt in the wheat gluten and the melamine food gave them something to eat. I'd like to know if they plated out a wash of the wheat gluten+melamine to see if they'd find a preponderance of these soil organisms. I am further confused by the recent declaration of the Chinese that this product was industrial wheat gluten not meant for consumption by pets. Do they mean it was (spoiled, cr*ppy, adulterated, moldy) wheat gluten spiked with Melamine+urea for cow food or do they mean it was supposed to go to industry where wheat gluten is used as a paper coating and even to make thermoplastics? Melamine wouldn't be out of place in that instance and it may have even been a premix made for industry. There is even such a thing as melamine cyanurate, though for the life of me I don't remember what the heck it's used for. So many questions, so little energy.... Yes Dora, some of my questions exactly! Bacteria are pretty good at breaking down atrazine in the soil, the ones with a specific enzyme that is. So far I’ve found evidence of several species of everyday soil bacteria that have this enzyme and some tinkering by scientists to put this ability into other bacteria. For these bacteria Melamine is food and the 3 “new” toxins listed are ones common to breakdown by bacteria. I think I’m way too tired to try and find out how cats and dogs would metabolize the 3 breakdown products, but that IS a question that needs to be answered.

Also I have no idea if a plant would “take up” the metabolites or the melamine into their tissue and become systemic or concentrated in the wheat seed. That’s another whole search. It could just be plain old dirt in the wheat gluten and the melamine food gave them something to eat.

I’d like to know if they plated out a wash of the wheat gluten+melamine to see if they’d find a preponderance of these soil organisms.

I am further confused by the recent declaration of the Chinese that this product was industrial wheat gluten not meant for consumption by pets. Do they mean it was (spoiled, cr*ppy, adulterated, moldy) wheat gluten spiked with Melamine+urea for cow food or do they mean it was supposed to go to industry where wheat gluten is used as a paper coating and even to make thermoplastics? Melamine wouldn’t be out of place in that instance and it may have even been a premix made for industry. There is even such a thing as melamine cyanurate, though for the life of me I don’t remember what the heck it’s used for.

So many questions, so little energy….

]]> By: Linda http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35848 Linda Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:18:05 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35848 That's telling it like it is Sharon. This is an administration and political problem - and its ugly roots are wide and deep! Linda MS That’s telling it like it is Sharon. This is an administration and political problem - and its ugly roots are wide and deep!

Linda MS

]]> By: Sharon http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35833 Sharon Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:00:24 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35833 Bush has appointed over 100 Lobbyists to act as regulators. Conflict of Interest is rampant in this administration. I'm sure the Feds are doing everything they can this weekend to figure out how to protect their friends from any financial or legal liability they may face from this nightmare. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0523-02.htm Bush has appointed over 100 Lobbyists to act as regulators. Conflict of Interest is rampant in this administration. I’m sure the Feds are doing everything they can this weekend to figure out how to protect their friends from any financial or legal liability they may face from this nightmare.

http://www.commondreams.org/he.....523-02.htm

]]> By: joe Romano http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35555 joe Romano Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:32:15 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35555 I was trying to relax,read another mag. to get my mind off my Mitten's,Cremated Three months ago due to (Alpo Prime cuts,by Nestle Co.),when on page21 of the May issue of Consumer Reports article of "Special Lawn Section-How to Fix the top 10 lawn problems,and keep them from coming back.",...1 Crabgrass.The Remedy : Apply CORN Gluten meal,....The EPA considers all three:Dithiopyr,prodiamine and pendimenthalin,as human carcinogens,....follow directions accordingly.Please ,all readers of pet connection be careful where your pets play this spring and summer on your Chemically treated lawns,...Dog's sometimes eat grass,....Feeding them poisoned pet food is bad enough.Read All Lawn care products before applying(Domestic Animal warning )them on your lawns.Thanks Consumer Reports,and Pet Connection. I was trying to relax,read another mag. to get my mind off my Mitten’s,Cremated Three months ago due to (Alpo Prime cuts,by Nestle Co.),when on page21 of the May issue of Consumer Reports article of “Special Lawn Section-How to Fix the top 10 lawn problems,and keep them from coming back.”,…1 Crabgrass.The Remedy : Apply CORN Gluten meal,….The EPA considers all three:Dithiopyr,prodiamine and pendimenthalin,as human carcinogens,….follow directions accordingly.Please ,all readers of pet connection be careful where your pets play this spring and summer on your Chemically treated lawns,…Dog’s sometimes eat grass,….Feeding them poisoned pet food is bad enough.Read All Lawn care products before applying(Domestic Animal warning )them on your lawns.Thanks Consumer Reports,and Pet Connection.

]]> By: Dora Smith http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35460 Dora Smith Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:14:01 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35460 I have followed some of the links provided by, if I am following the format of the blog properly, Kat and Margaret Bridge, on the breakdown of melamine and the three new chemicals. First, the three new chemicals are all products of the breakdown of "s-triazine herbicides" in soil and by bacteria as well as in the bodies of animals. That means they could be part of the crystals found in the wheat gluten and the pet food that are identical to the crystals found in animal tissues, that contained the three new chemicals. They could have formed in the soil or as a result of bacterial breakdown of the melanine. Second, melanine is a "s-triazine herbicide", even though it is an ingredient in plastic and a fertilizer banned everywhere but Asia, and not a herbicide (we hope). So we need to know if the melanine and its breakdown products could just have been in the soil where the grain grew. I also just caught up with the pink bag thing. No, it doesn't explain all three cases all by itself. And if we're supposed to believe it, the inspectors who want to check the Chinese plants got their visas approved in five seconds last week. I have followed some of the links provided by, if I am following the format of the blog properly, Kat and Margaret Bridge, on the breakdown of melamine and the three new chemicals.

First, the three new chemicals are all products of the breakdown of “s-triazine herbicides” in soil and by bacteria as well as in the bodies of animals. That means they could be part of the crystals found in the wheat gluten and the pet food that are identical to the crystals found in animal tissues, that contained the three new chemicals. They could have formed in the soil or as a result of bacterial breakdown of the melanine.

Second, melanine is a “s-triazine herbicide”, even though it is an ingredient in plastic and a fertilizer banned everywhere but Asia, and not a herbicide (we hope).

So we need to know if the melanine and its breakdown products could just have been in the soil where the grain grew.

I also just caught up with the pink bag thing. No, it doesn’t explain all three cases all by itself. And if we’re supposed to believe it, the inspectors who want to check the Chinese plants got their visas approved in five seconds last week.

]]> By: Dora Smith http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35443 Dora Smith Sat, 21 Apr 2007 22:43:48 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35443 I have a specific question about the test results that identified cyanuric acid, amilorine, and amiloride. It goes to accurately identifying the nature of what chemicals are getting into the grain products how. It is stated that these are animal metabolites of melamine and also that they are part of identical crystals that were found in the toxic wheat gluten, leaving it unclear whether they were part of the toxic chemicals that got into the grain products. The quote at the top of this blog states exactly what today's newspaper article states; that "Researchers isolated a spoke-like crystal in pet food, wheat gluten, and in the urine, kidneys and tissues of infected animals (miswording the author's)." So far, identical crystals were found in the grain products, the pet food, and the animal tissues from animals who ate the food and got sick. "About 30 percent of THOSE CRYSTALS (the identical crystals that were found in both the wheat gluten and the animal tissues) are made up of melamine, one investigator said (would have been nice to be able to call the investigator for clarification), and researchers spent several weeks trying to identify what is in THE REMAINDER (of the identical crystals that were found in both the wheat gluten and the animal tissues. Researchers in atleast three labs found cyanuric acid, amilorine, and amiloride -- all by-products of melanine - IN THE CRYSTALS OF ANIMALS' URINE, TISSUES AND KIDNEYS, according to Dr. Brent Hoff, a veterinarian and clinical toxicologist and pathologist, at the University of Guelph, in Ontario, Canada (and two other specialists). OK, either the crystals in the food and hte crystals in the animal tissues were identical or they were not. It is important to know whether these three chemicals were only found in the animal tissues or were already in the food the animals ate. The article I have was written by Karen Roebuck, kroebuck@tribweb.com, 412-320-7939. The other two veterinary specialists cited were Richard Goldstein, assc. professor of medicine at Cornell veterinary school, and Thomas Mullaney, acting director of Michigan State University Center for Population and Animal Health. I'm planning to make some calls on Monday, if possible, and post what I learn, but I bet the owners of this site will get further with getting answers. I have a specific question about the test results that identified cyanuric acid, amilorine, and amiloride. It goes to accurately identifying the nature of what chemicals are getting into the grain products how. It is stated that these are animal metabolites of melamine and also that they are part of identical crystals that were found in the toxic wheat gluten, leaving it unclear whether they were part of the toxic chemicals that got into the grain products.

The quote at the top of this blog states exactly what today’s newspaper article states; that “Researchers isolated a spoke-like crystal in pet food, wheat gluten, and in the urine, kidneys and tissues of infected animals (miswording the author’s).” So far, identical crystals were found in the grain products, the pet food, and the animal tissues from animals who ate the food and got sick.

“About 30 percent of THOSE CRYSTALS (the identical crystals that were found in both the wheat gluten and the animal tissues) are made up of melamine, one investigator said (would have been nice to be able to call the investigator for clarification), and researchers spent several weeks trying to identify what is in THE REMAINDER (of the identical crystals that were found in both the wheat gluten and the animal tissues. Researchers in atleast three labs found cyanuric acid, amilorine, and amiloride — all by-products of melanine - IN THE CRYSTALS OF ANIMALS’ URINE, TISSUES AND KIDNEYS, according to Dr. Brent Hoff, a veterinarian and clinical toxicologist and pathologist, at the University of Guelph, in Ontario, Canada (and two other specialists).

OK, either the crystals in the food and hte crystals in the animal tissues were identical or they were not. It is important to know whether these three chemicals were only found in the animal tissues or were already in the food the animals ate.

The article I have was written by Karen Roebuck, kroebuck@tribweb.com, 412-320-7939.

The other two veterinary specialists cited were Richard Goldstein, assc. professor of medicine at Cornell veterinary school, and Thomas Mullaney, acting director of Michigan State University Center for Population and Animal Health.

I’m planning to make some calls on Monday, if possible, and post what I learn, but I bet the owners of this site will get further with getting answers.

]]> By: Dora Smith http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/comment-page-3/#comment-35429 Dora Smith Sat, 21 Apr 2007 22:19:27 +0000 http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2007/04/20/pet-food-recall-researchers-identify-three-other-contaminants-in-urine-kidneys-of-pets-who-ate-recalled-foods/#comment-35429 I don't know if the link I just posted to my web page on China will post to the list or not. If that or a snapshot that you can click on does post, check it out - I compiled some information on what is going on in China. I don't think it particularly constructive to blithely insult everything that has ever come from China, such as "Chinese takeout". I'm not actually planning to buy no more from Walmart. But China itself has overwhelming, mind boggling, global ecology threatening problems, and food from there is not at this time safe for human or animal consumption. Not ALL food from tehre is toxic, nor is food from all regions of China equally likely to be, but I don't wish to gamble, and the last thing China really needs at the moment is misplaced sympathy from us. International dollars is the only thing her government understands at the moment. I don’t know if the link I just posted to my web page on China will post to the list or not. If that or a snapshot that you can click on does post, check it out - I compiled some information on what is going on in China.

I don’t think it particularly constructive to blithely insult everything that has ever come from China, such as “Chinese takeout”. I’m not actually planning to buy no more from Walmart. But China itself has overwhelming, mind boggling, global ecology threatening problems, and food from there is not at this time safe for human or animal consumption. Not ALL food from tehre is toxic, nor is food from all regions of China equally likely to be, but I don’t wish to gamble, and the last thing China really needs at the moment is misplaced sympathy from us. International dollars is the only thing her government understands at the moment.

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